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Push off & clean effectiveness?

8/19/18       
Larry

Push off & clean effectiveness? Going to IWF to look at a new router. We are hoping the cleaning of the push off systems is very good. Any input now would be greatly appreciated.

When the spoil board has the shallow cuts from the bit, does it cause problems with snagging parts, scrap?

Would you also buy the auto load, auto label functions? For us it would require a complete re-arrangement of the shop to get it fit in. Costing more than the added functions.

8/19/18       #2: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Bill

Push off does a pretty good job requiring a minor blow off of fine dust.

Shallow cuts do not effect push off

It is definitely worth having.

8/19/18       #3: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Larry

I'd really like to not blow off any dust. Is it possible to have a good enough design and enough suction to not leave enough dust behind to matter? I've considered adding a rotating brush to the dust hood to make pickup a lot better.

8/20/18       #4: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Gary Balcom

Larry,

We love our push off. We have excellent dust collection at the router, but still, end up blowing off the table. The vac gets probably 85% of it, but we feel like the other 15% needs to come off for the next sheet to run effectively. You may be on to something with the rotating brushes...I'd like to see that played out.

8/20/18       #5: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Bill Member

We do not have 15% of dust after the pushoff. We could run multiple sheets without blowing off anything.

8/21/18       #6: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
cabinetmaker

Spoilboard is screwed down

Pusher cleans well. We have butterfly valves in all dust ports making sure proper dust pick up goes to the pusher sweep as it engages

Will be buying a self load next time no doubt about it

8/23/18       #7: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Matt

Clean (sweep) effectiveness varies on our machine depending on the material cut and particle size but usually 95% is removed. We've experimented with skipping an air-chuck blowoff by hand and have found that it works MOST of the time, but we still have the occasional parts move because of broken vacuum from dust.

So we blow it off, but it takes maybe 4 seconds if you use a 24" wand.

8/23/18       #8: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Matt

And by the way, if the auto-loading feature was pretty much 100% accurate in nesting the sheet properly so that the sheet isn't tilted on the spoilboard (and thus not risking the parts that sit on the extreme edges of the board), I absolutely would consider it very strongly.

I can't say I'd definitely buy it, but in our shop it certainly would be a benefit.

8/24/18       #9: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Derrek

I have a Biesse RoverS. Auto load and unload. The sweep arm cleans very.well and we have no need to blow off dust between sheets. We run a 1" thick spoilboard and run down to 12 mm before changing out we. Have made a spacer that we can raise and lower sweep arm by 5mm to keep it close to table, we lower it when spoilboard is at 18mm.
It places the panel in exact same spot on table everytime. Biggest issue we will have is melamine that paper is not properly aligned on and we will get a bad edge.
We are 45 seconds between sheets. My guy can label and edgeband and finish about same time as router is finishing next sheet.
If I was buying one today, I would get the autolabel set up as well. We run 25 to 50 sheets a day, all 3/4 melamine.

Sweep arm height adjustment

8/26/18       #10: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Chris

Derreck,

That solution to not having a CNC sweep is simple genius. Thank you so much. Two regret i have when we bought our Biesse were not going with auto label and the cnc fence. Both of them are things that would help us get from 80-100 sheets a shift easily.

Thank you again. I will be making one of those tomorrow.

8/31/18       #11: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Scott

A good unloading system with proper size dust collection will clean of your spoil board so you can machine the next sheet with out doing anything. This of course as we all know is not usually the case, a lot of shops have expanded past their dust collectors suction specs.
Shops with multiple guys and gals working have more machines running at once, so suction is not sufficient. The sweep gets most of it but some extra work is required.
More importantly why are you blowing anything with compressed air?? This would be a last resort maybe on Friday night or mid week when a cleanup is done and you take of your mask and go home, the dust settles and next day you clean it up.
If you blow of the cnc after every sheet it sort of defeats the purpose of even having dust collection?
Dust collection is used for the safety of the employees and for the safety of the shop.
I would recommend getting a small dust collector, or run a hose off your big dust collector or even a good shop vacuum with bags and a good flexible hose, a good wand and a brush and suck up the dust that is left on the spoil board. When it comes to time, it is not a lot different if you get a nice long brush from a janitorial store, 5 quick passes and your done.
The shop will stay way cleaner, the air everyone is breathing will be way cleaner and you will have less sick days as everyone will be a lot healthier and happier.

8/31/18       #12: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Larry

From what I saw at the IWF show, positioning of the sheets looked good on auto load features. Dust remaining after push off was hard to determine since many machines were just cycling, not a fresh board every time. I don't want to blow dust off...!! At all. I would consider that a failure of the system. I don't want employees breathing dust! All the installed systems seemed very similar. Some had a single hose connection some had more. Much of the dust was trapped between the parts and fell/got sucked out as the parts slid across a slotted opening while off loading. Some was stuck to the edges of the parts, most likely from the compression bits used. Most of that probably falls off in subsequent handling. It is not likely much of a health issue.

Back to cleaning the spoil board: None of the systems seemed to pick up clean enough. Could I fix that by installing a rotary brush in the dust hood? Seems like that would get the dust up into the air stream where it would be picked up. Yes it would require a new hood design and some simple mechanical work. But I think worth it given how many of the responses here were still blowing dust off. The brush would run when the hood was lowered and be off when raised, simple switch.

Crazy idea? Cost? a few $100, maybe 1G. What is health worth?

9/4/18       #13: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Jim

Anybody know about how much dust collection (CFM) is required to run a machine with the push off and clean?
Thanks

9/4/18       #14: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Derrek

Couple things on Dust collection
We run a 5000 cfm that also services our bander. I would like a little more.
Dust collection only picks up about 50% during cutting process, we have added items to keep shop cleaner and contain for easier cleanup. When parts are pushed off, we have collection at end of table and conveyor belt runs faster than push of speed, seperating parts slightly and allowing sawdust to fall through grate. At end of conveyor there is another collector that remaining dust rolls into.
When pushing off , it is also pulling new sheet on. There is no time to blow off between this process unless you are stopping the process. With proper dust collection the spoilboard is cleaned and ready for new board.
If your buying a machine like this your spending 100-150k minimum spending an extra 10-20k if needed for dust collection is a wise choice. If your not going to have it work like it designed to, then just buy a cnc without all that stuff because you will be wasting your money.

9/4/18       #15: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Larry

We have a 9,000cfm Disa serving the bander, beam saw, router and sometimes the bore & insert. Probably enough cfm?

9/23/18       #16: Push off & clean effectiveness? ...
Jason

I have a biesse skill that cleans the table well enough that we don’t have to blow between sheets.


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