Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Satin Finish

2/25/15       
Steven

I had to put a clear coat over some doors with wb paint on them. I used Minwax polycrylic satin sprayed with hvlp conversion gun. The polycrylic sprays out fairly well and looks good wet at first, but every coat I've had problems drying with dust nibs, lint, pinholes, bubbles, orange peel, etc.

I tried rubbing these out to fix the problems starting with 320 on RO, then wet sand with 400, 600, 800, finally rubbing with 4/0 steel wool with murphys oil soap as a lube. I didn't realize the steel wool scratches would be so visible and I don't like it with this being a solid painted finish. I tried an auto scratch remover, and it helped some, but brought the sheen up way too much also.

I sanded back with 320 again and recoated the doors and got a much better finish off the gun, but there are still some imperfections, dust nibs, and sheen irregularities that I was hoping to remove without putting scratches in the finish or changing the sheen in spots.

Could I use a power buffer and some type of compound to wear down the nibs and produce an even, satin sheen? Would abrading to a higher grit like 2000 make the scratches invisible to the naked eye and still give a satin finish? I really want to maintain the off the gun look to match the rest of the job; will I just have to live with the imperfections?

2/25/15       #2: Satin Finish ...
arthur grudko

You could try the same sanding procedure, except rub with Scotchbrite pads instead of steel wool. Try the white pad with different grits of rubbing compound. If this results in too high a gloss, try the gray pad.

2/25/15       #3: Satin Finish ...
Leo G

Off the gun and a polished finish will almost never look the same. Even if they are classified as the same sheen. There is a different look to each of them.

2/25/15       #4: Satin Finish ...
rich c.

WB finish 101, never use steel wool. You'll very likely has little rust spots, and other issues. Finishing 102, never buy consumer grade products from a big box store. Try Target or General Finishes for your supplies. You may be applying too heavy of coats of finish and improper nozzle size. Pretty sure Minwax doesn't give film thickness specs because a home owner doesn't have any idea what that is about. Polishing is not the way to flatten a finish, you need to use a flat backed abrasive. Like hard pad on a sander, or block sanding. Abralon is okay after you get the finish flattened to adjust the sheen.

2/25/15       #5: Satin Finish ...
Steven

I notice that in addition to the line of 3M scotchbrite pads they also have different finishing pads like this white final finishing pad.

Link

2/25/15       #6: Satin Finish ...
Steven

Does anyone think those 3M white final finishing pads would get rid of the dust nibs without affecting the satin sheen?

I didn't think the steel wool would leave rust spots as the finish had already dried for several days before I started abrading, and I was using the sandpaper backed by cork block to flatten before using the steel wool with oil soap to get to the satin finish. I didn't intend to use it to sand between coats of wb finish as I was aware of the rust issue.

When I decided the look was not right, before I recoated, I sanded again with 320 on a RO and cleaned the surface well to make sure there was no steel wool debris.

2/25/15       #7: Satin Finish ...
Steven

Rich,

You're right, I think a lot of my original problems were laying on the polycrylic too thick; btw, I was using a 1.4 nozzle.

On my final coat I added a little alcohol to thin and a drop of dish soap hoping to decrease the surface tension and relieve some of the pin holing, which I wasn't sure were because of air bubbles popping or fish eye.

It looked a lot better, now I'd really be glad just to knock off the dust nibs so it feels smooth. I just don't want to alter the "off the gun" look too much if possible.

I'll probably just leave it alone this time and experiment some more with the scotchbrite pads and higher sanding grits to see if I can get a rubbed/polished satin finish that somewhat resembles a sprayed on finish.

Anyone seen the satin automotive finishes and know how they're doing those? I couldn't imagine there being a visible scratch pattern on a car.

2/26/15       #8: Satin Finish ...
rich c.

You can't use any type of pad to buff off imperfections, they have to be cut off. White pads are so fine, it is hard to see them do anything. It would take a day to remove bumps with them by hand. Abralon after fine wet sanding does it, but you don't seem to like that idea. Have you really looked closely at a car paint job? It would not pass for furniture finish by any means. Orange peel abounds! The sheen they get is from the gun, but a computer controlled gun at that! Please don't randomly add liquid to the finish. You have no idea what you are doing to the chemistry. Future cracking, soft spots, etc....

2/26/15       #9: Satin Finish ...
Steven

Rich, I've been reading this forum and the knowledge base for for a number of years and it's actually where I came across the advice of adding a little dish detergent containing a surfactant to decrease a waterborne finish's surface tension to temporarily relieve a fisheye or pin holing issue as well as using DNA to thin to get it to level out a little better.

I realize that it might not apply to polycrylic, but I was willing to give it a shot this one time since I was only doing a few doors; hopefully it won't cause any issues, but I know I'll hear about it if it does.

Sure, I didn't like the look I got from going through the wet sanding to 800 and finishing with 4/0 steel wool, but I stopped experimenting there.

What grit would you suggest sanding up to and what abralon pad to get a satin sheen without it looking scratched or like brushed metal, if it's even possible? Thanks.

2/27/15       #10: Satin Finish ...
rich c.

I would stop at 600 grit wet sanding, then maybe 500 or 1000 or the Abralon. I suggest you get an assortment so you can judge the sheen. Use a little soapy water for lube. There is no visible marks after using even the coarsest 180 grit Abralon. It has a foam backing, so no visible scratching, just different sheen levels.

2/28/15       #11: Satin Finish ...
Robert Member

If you spray the coatings on the door/doors in the same position they will hang, its less likely to get dust falling down upon them.

Nibs and drips and stuff and junk and crud and crap need to be removed via a block that has sandpaper wrapped around it.
Without the block your just scooting right over the nibs and the drips and the.....

My apologies if the name of a Law Firm happens to be.. Nibs and Drips and Stuff and Junk and Crud and Crap.

2/28/15       #12: Satin Finish ...
Leo G

I don't know if it'll work on waterborne I use a trick to get rid of some plicks.

Use a paper back and rub the area. It has a grit of about 2000. I use it to get rid of overspray if it occurs. It works on rough spots too. Won't work magic but it will take care of a lot of things. Waterborne might not be hard enough to not get scratched though. I use this trick when using CV.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)