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ML Campbell H20 over oil stain12/6
I am going to try the ML Campbell H20
What product and what product? We dont run any waterbourne stains but run all waterborne top coats. We have run agualente, aguabarnice, aguatana,.. never has one been run over a waterborne stain or dye, or glaze.
Its just me personally but Ive never cared for waterborne stains so have always stayed with MLC or Sherwin BAC for the most part.
We typically use the MLC solvent stains topcoated with the various MLC waterbornes. I haven't tryed the H2O.
When I'm doing small projects that need alot of messing around to figure out the flavor. I use the Zar stains. I find them much better than anything else you can get off the shelf.
I will typically do a barrier coat of shellac Sealcoat. Then the MLC waterborne. Its a trust, time thing with the oil based stains. I don't have the time and don't trust the dry times.
We are using Woodsong and sherwin BAC. Often times with no sealer. Haven't used min wax in a long time. Too slow to dry and miserable to work with compared to the others. Never had a concern about dry times with the woodsong and bac. They dry super fast for us.
About 8 - 10 yrs ago I tried using the Agualente Clear (waterborne) over a solvent stain (MLC) Followed all the recommendations of the regional Rep.
Had major issues. Called MLC directly. Their tech said they would never recommend it, but if you let the stain dry completely, it should not be a problem.
Their conclusion. The Regional Reps instructions of letting it dry 24 hrs was not enough time. They suggest a full week drying time.I haven't tried it again since.
I now use the Magnamax H2O. It is a very good product for me and I would think it would do well over most anything that has dried completely.
I have learned that with MLC's new waterborne products, patience is everything. Let it dry thoroughly. Their suggested times are not long enough.
i've done this a number of times - different water-based products (sayerlack, kem aqua plus) but that same "formula" - here's what i've learned, and had success:
1) ZAR stains are the best i've seen and used. did a kitchen once with old masters and had issues with the finish lifting. i avoid old masters, now that i've found ZAR.
2) let the stuff dry for days, 3-5 or so, and i put a fan on it. then, when dry, i wipe them down with acetone or naphtha to cut any oil left on the surface.
3) sealcoat (or your own dewaxed mix) works, but SPRAY LIGHTLY because if you build too thick of a shellac coat, the aggressiveness of the coalescing topcoat can craze/crack the shellac, and that's a nightmare. been there (recently)
these steps work well for me. it's given me literally the nicest finish on walnut i've ever achieved. lessons learned, but it works quite well. if you can stomach the long dry time of the oil-based, you'll end up with terrific results.
good luck with your project....
This is all interesting and I guess should make me nervous. We have been running woodsong and bac under most all of the WB topcoats mentioned here, sayerlack, kemaqua, but mainly all the MLC waterbornes and we rarely (I could count the times) use sealer, we have never had an issue with topcoating either of the finishes in reasonably close to the dry times stated (we dont crowd the 20-30 minute mark by any means) and have literally never had a finish issue with any of the topcoats. Maybe we are lucky, maybe there is something else in the process at play, no idea.
The only issues we have ever had have been with the topcoat dry times getting a bit ridiculous. That happened with the aqualente plus reformulation, and I will say in cooler temps this time of year the MagnamaxH20 is way way slower than I would like.
We honestly would never have a job with enough money in it to let stain dry for multiple days, fans, wipe downs, and so on. I dont blame anyone for doing it if thats whats working but I would be bankrupt.
I'll play devils advocate here. If you've been using GF Enduro-var why not just go with GF's line of stains? They've got oil based that can be topcoated with their WB line although dry time is still 3 days. They've got WB retail/diy line of stains that if you add their extender you can get a longer working time if that's an issue. But if you're staying with what you got I'd go with the sealcoat as David mentioned over the oil based stain after it drys 72hrs before going with any WB topcoat.
Thanks for all the response
Staying under one roof and local availability plays a big part. Im always very envious of the shops that have several finish options to pull from nearby as well as customer service support. We have zero from Sherwin and a little from MLC and no access to any other finish without freight. We had zero availability other than sherwin for a while and our local branches dont stock any waterborne clears even if we ask them to. Our local MLC branch doesnt move much waterborne at all but we order cases and pull material as needed which helps. We ultimately switched to Target for a period and were happy with the material but freighting material in, staying ahead of what you need, and carrying inventory in the cold months was a bit of work.
Report back. We have literally never worried about spraying the woodsong in a couple hours (possibly less on rare occasion). We simply havent had the issues mentioned here but as I say, there may be other factors at play.
it took a fair amount of work to get SW to get sayerlack readily available here in SE michigan. i worked with the reps, talked to management at IWF, and it wasn't easy, but they now have it, and it's easy to get.
We were running AF-72 out of their PA industrial location but I think it was when they first brought the line in. It was a nice finish but the whole thing was a nightmare. We had to bring in pails only and because they had to come in common carrier we would bring in 4-6 pails at a time. PA would just drop the pails on a pallet and shrink wrap them to the pallet. Inevitably the tractor and trailer would hit a bump hard enough to bounce the pallet off the deck of the trailer and when it slammed back down the bottoms of the pails would blow out. Every pail that came off the trailer would have a round bottom and inevitably one would have sprung a leak and either be dead empty, partially empty, or leaking. SW would never compensate us for their nightmare when all they had to do was throw a sheet of OSB or anything other than cardboard under the pails.
After we ate a few partial pails we moved to Target because we couldnt take it anymore. Paying LTL and losing material on the way, and listening to the terminal or driver bellyaching about their tractor trailers having a hardwood floor finish in them was too much to bear.
In my MLC waterborne class,we did a sample using solvent stain then waterborne