Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

ML Campbell H20 over oil stain

12/6/18       
Mike Member

I am going to try the ML Campbell H20
for Oak office chairs I'm building.
I have used General Eduro-Var over oil stain before just have to wait 4 or 5 days, and had good results.
Any one use the H20 over oil base stain.

12/6/18       #3: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mark B Member

What product and what product? We dont run any waterbourne stains but run all waterborne top coats. We have run agualente, aguabarnice, aguatana,.. never has one been run over a waterborne stain or dye, or glaze.

Its just me personally but Ive never cared for waterborne stains so have always stayed with MLC or Sherwin BAC for the most part.

12/6/18       #4: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mike Member

Magnamax H20
Stain that I use is Old Masters and
Minwax
My supplier can do the MLC woodsong
To match the minwax colors
I don’t care for the waterbase stain
but like the idea of the waterbase topcoat
How long do you let your stain dry and do you recommend a sealer

12/7/18       #5: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Adam

We typically use the MLC solvent stains topcoated with the various MLC waterbornes. I haven't tryed the H2O.

When I'm doing small projects that need alot of messing around to figure out the flavor. I use the Zar stains. I find them much better than anything else you can get off the shelf.

I will typically do a barrier coat of shellac Sealcoat. Then the MLC waterborne. Its a trust, time thing with the oil based stains. I don't have the time and don't trust the dry times.

12/7/18       #6: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
MarkB Member

We are using Woodsong and sherwin BAC. Often times with no sealer. Haven't used min wax in a long time. Too slow to dry and miserable to work with compared to the others. Never had a concern about dry times with the woodsong and bac. They dry super fast for us.

12/7/18       #7: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
JoeW Member

About 8 - 10 yrs ago I tried using the Agualente Clear (waterborne) over a solvent stain (MLC) Followed all the recommendations of the regional Rep.

Had major issues. Called MLC directly. Their tech said they would never recommend it, but if you let the stain dry completely, it should not be a problem.

Their conclusion. The Regional Reps instructions of letting it dry 24 hrs was not enough time. They suggest a full week drying time.I haven't tried it again since.

I now use the Magnamax H2O. It is a very good product for me and I would think it would do well over most anything that has dried completely.

I have learned that with MLC's new waterborne products, patience is everything. Let it dry thoroughly. Their suggested times are not long enough.

12/7/18       #8: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
david zaret Member

i've done this a number of times - different water-based products (sayerlack, kem aqua plus) but that same "formula" - here's what i've learned, and had success:

1) ZAR stains are the best i've seen and used. did a kitchen once with old masters and had issues with the finish lifting. i avoid old masters, now that i've found ZAR.

2) let the stuff dry for days, 3-5 or so, and i put a fan on it. then, when dry, i wipe them down with acetone or naphtha to cut any oil left on the surface.

3) sealcoat (or your own dewaxed mix) works, but SPRAY LIGHTLY because if you build too thick of a shellac coat, the aggressiveness of the coalescing topcoat can craze/crack the shellac, and that's a nightmare. been there (recently)

these steps work well for me. it's given me literally the nicest finish on walnut i've ever achieved. lessons learned, but it works quite well. if you can stomach the long dry time of the oil-based, you'll end up with terrific results.

good luck with your project....

-- dz

12/7/18       #9: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mark B Member

This is all interesting and I guess should make me nervous. We have been running woodsong and bac under most all of the WB topcoats mentioned here, sayerlack, kemaqua, but mainly all the MLC waterbornes and we rarely (I could count the times) use sealer, we have never had an issue with topcoating either of the finishes in reasonably close to the dry times stated (we dont crowd the 20-30 minute mark by any means) and have literally never had a finish issue with any of the topcoats. Maybe we are lucky, maybe there is something else in the process at play, no idea.

The only issues we have ever had have been with the topcoat dry times getting a bit ridiculous. That happened with the aqualente plus reformulation, and I will say in cooler temps this time of year the MagnamaxH20 is way way slower than I would like.

We honestly would never have a job with enough money in it to let stain dry for multiple days, fans, wipe downs, and so on. I dont blame anyone for doing it if thats whats working but I would be bankrupt.

12/7/18       #10: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Bart

I'll play devils advocate here. If you've been using GF Enduro-var why not just go with GF's line of stains? They've got oil based that can be topcoated with their WB line although dry time is still 3 days. They've got WB retail/diy line of stains that if you add their extender you can get a longer working time if that's an issue. But if you're staying with what you got I'd go with the sealcoat as David mentioned over the oil based stain after it drys 72hrs before going with any WB topcoat.

good luck
my2cts

12/7/18       #11: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mike Member

Thanks for all the response
I think I will go with the MLC Woodsong stain
Both are available in town, I dont have to worry about having the General Enduro-Var shipped to me.

12/7/18       #12: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mark B Member

Staying under one roof and local availability plays a big part. Im always very envious of the shops that have several finish options to pull from nearby as well as customer service support. We have zero from Sherwin and a little from MLC and no access to any other finish without freight. We had zero availability other than sherwin for a while and our local branches dont stock any waterborne clears even if we ask them to. Our local MLC branch doesnt move much waterborne at all but we order cases and pull material as needed which helps. We ultimately switched to Target for a period and were happy with the material but freighting material in, staying ahead of what you need, and carrying inventory in the cold months was a bit of work.

Report back. We have literally never worried about spraying the woodsong in a couple hours (possibly less on rare occasion). We simply havent had the issues mentioned here but as I say, there may be other factors at play.

Good luck.

12/7/18       #13: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
david zaret Member

it took a fair amount of work to get SW to get sayerlack readily available here in SE michigan. i worked with the reps, talked to management at IWF, and it wasn't easy, but they now have it, and it's easy to get.

12/7/18       #14: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
Mark B Member

We were running AF-72 out of their PA industrial location but I think it was when they first brought the line in. It was a nice finish but the whole thing was a nightmare. We had to bring in pails only and because they had to come in common carrier we would bring in 4-6 pails at a time. PA would just drop the pails on a pallet and shrink wrap them to the pallet. Inevitably the tractor and trailer would hit a bump hard enough to bounce the pallet off the deck of the trailer and when it slammed back down the bottoms of the pails would blow out. Every pail that came off the trailer would have a round bottom and inevitably one would have sprung a leak and either be dead empty, partially empty, or leaking. SW would never compensate us for their nightmare when all they had to do was throw a sheet of OSB or anything other than cardboard under the pails.

After we ate a few partial pails we moved to Target because we couldnt take it anymore. Paying LTL and losing material on the way, and listening to the terminal or driver bellyaching about their tractor trailers having a hardwood floor finish in them was too much to bear.

12/8/18       #15: ML Campbell H20 over oil stain ...
mastercabman

In my MLC waterborne class,we did a sample using solvent stain then waterborne
Seal and top coat
We were told to double the drying time of the stain
Typically you need to wait 30-45 minutes so double that and you shouldn't have any problems
Personally I wouldn't use minwax for stain
Takes wayyy too long to dry
I would stick with the same brand/product within the system you want to use


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)