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Fixing warped veneer

4/7/16       
Jeff Christenson Member

Website: http://www.jeffscabinets.com

Hello fellow wood workers! I would appreciate some input on repairing this bass drum for my drummer friend. I am doing this for free to help him out. You see in the pics that the inside ply has been water damaged and the wood is warped. Any advice on how to go about getting the ply flat again? Im thinking steam somehow, like a steamer used for clothing, is that crazy? Then there is the gluing issue, I can come up with a jig or method to clamp the ply down but would like some input on getting glue under the ply, be it a syringe or whatever.
Thank you! Jeff C


View higher quality, full size image (2592 X 1944)


View higher quality, full size image (2592 X 1944)

4/7/16       #3: Fixing warped veneer ...
Howard

Jeff this does not look like something that can simply be glued down. If it is just the top ply, see if you can remove the damaged part up to where it is solid and then splice in another piece of the same thickness. You can apply some heat to help in getting this up. Go slowly and try this on a small section with the understanding that it could be beyond repair.

4/7/16       #4: Fixing warped veneer ...
Jeff Christenson Member

Website: http://www.jeffscabinets.com

Thanks Howard. It appears that the only ply with issues is the one interior ply. This drum is made with three plys, probably maple,poplar maple. I really want to save the original wood. The drum seems to be be pretty solid and this is more of a cosmetic repair than anything. The wood can be pushed down flat with a little pressure from my fingers so maybe getting some glue under them and clamping will work good enough to keep the plys from further separation.

4/7/16       #5: Fixing warped veneer ...
TonyF

Jeff Christenson:

It looks bad from the standpoint of keeping the existing veneer. If this were me, I would do the following:

Take some bending poplar and use a good portion of the shell to glue up 4 layers on the inside of the shell in such a manner that they are not glued to the drum shell, span at least two sets of the holes for the drum lugs, and will fit inside the reinforcement rings on the outer diameters of the shell.

Cut a clean perpendicular line on this bending poplar caul. You can then use this cut as a guide for a small top-bearing straight router bit.

Start at just inside the lug holes, clamp the caul and rout a path that is the thickness of the veneer you are trying to remove. Because the router base rides on the caul, and the routing depth is set relative to this, it does not matter what the bad veneer height is, as you are routing to the depth of the top of the second veneer ply.

You may need to take a piece of the appropriate thickness veneer and set it under the caul as you move further in and continue routing, so that the caul does not rock. Remove all the bad veneer.

When this is done, clean up anyany router bit ridges, and the router remnants up to the reinforcing rings with a chisel, and then you can use the caul to glue a new piece of veneer in, putting some wax paper between the caul and the new veneer.

Hope it works out for you.
TonyF

4/7/16       #6: Fixing warped veneer ...
rich c.

Are you sure it's not spiral wound veneer? I'd suggest you have a structural issue with that much water damage. As bad as that is, I'd suggest a heavy epoxy saturation, then clamp with sheets of plastic under the cauls. I'd say he needs a new kit! Usually not an issue with drummers that I know.

4/8/16       #7: Fixing warped veneer ...
Jeff Christenson Member

Website: http://www.jeffscabinets.com

Tony, thanks for all the details! So if I understand you correctly you are suggesting to form a caul and use that to ride the router bit bearing against and slowly remove the bad ply. Then use that caul as a form to clamp down the new veneer. Great idea! Only what type of router would work for that, a small laminate trimmer? I dont get into veneer work too much at all so excuse me for asking so many questions. Where would you get bending poplar and what kind of adhesive do you use to glue them together, contact cement?
Rich, what is spiral wound veneer? And are you suggesting using epoxy to glue down the old veneer? And, this is my friends new kit, its a mid sixties Ludwig with gold sparkle wrap, he has been looking for one for a long time, they dont go for sale every day. We are vintage drum players and collectors. We love to restore old drums so that is the reason we would prefer to keep it as original as possible.

4/8/16       #8: Fixing warped veneer ...
Jared

If the idea is to keep the original veneer in place, here's how I'd skin this cat: load a syringe full of powdered plastic resin glue, lift the veneer everywhere it's loose, and squirt glue underneath, working it in really thoroughly. The real trick is how to clamp it, but if you have access to a vacuum pump (lots of how-to guides on the net to build your own for a few hundred bucks), the best result would be to build yourself a ring-shaped vacuum bag. A guerilla way to do this is to use visquine and butyl tape... imagine a flattened tube in a ring, one edge slit open to put the shell into. Get glue under the loose veneer, and pump the air out of the bag. Pop off the bag the next day and you'll be ready to sand off the excess. PPR sands easily but dries very rigid and fills gaps nicely.

4/8/16       #9: Fixing warped veneer ...
rich c.

I thought I had seen a method where they take a long sheet of veneer and roll it up to the correct wall thickness. Can't find that now though. My concern is structural integrity with that much water damage. You might be able to asses the integrity with thumping it. If it sounds the same all around, the inner layer or layers are good. If there is a dead sound near that damage, you probably have structural damage as well.

4/8/16       #10: Fixing warped veneer ...
TonyF

Jeff Christenson:

The poplar I refer to is 1/8" Italian bending poplar. You can get a sheet of this from most sheet goods suppliers. I would use Titebond to clamp the plies together to make a rigid caul. Do not use contact cement for anything in this process.

Be sure that the caul is thicker than the outside reinforcement rings. Then the router base would ride over the rings, rather than bump up against them, allowing you to rout right up to the rings.

The rigid caul ensures that it maintains its shape and would allow you to use it as the veneer clamping caul.

Any router should work, but you would need a small (short cutting length) top bearing bit, so that the cut is not too deep.

Be sure to find the proper thickness veneer, although you could use a number of leaves of standard veneer thickness to make up the difference.

In my late 60's teens I had a late 60's Ludwig Jazz Combo set. Smaller bass drum. I feel your pain.

Good luck.
TonyF

4/8/16       #11: Fixing warped veneer ...
Jeff Christenson Member

Website: http://www.jeffscabinets.com

Hey thanks Tony for your help. Weather I remove the damaged ply or not I think this is usefull information because I can see making this caul can be useful in clamping.
Jared, can you tell me more about this powdered plastic resin glue, I have not heard of such a product.
Rich, I dont think we have an issue with the sound or performance of the drum. And the drum shell feels solid, its like we just need to flatten out the old plys and get them glued down so the plys dont separate any more.
Thanks for all of the input, very nice of you guys to chime in an help out. I have linked this thread to another one on vintage drum forum where I hang out everyday, these guys are really going to appreciate the interaction from members of both forums. Here is a link to the "other thread"
http://vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?p=383691#post383691
Hope you find this interesting, I will keep everyone up to date on this project as long as I keep getting responses.

4/8/16       #12: Fixing warped veneer ...
Jared

Powdered plastic resin: DAP Weldwood, UltraCAT, Unibond 800, etc. are powdered urea formaldehyde glues (Unibond might come premixed, can't remember exactly). Mix with the right amount of water until the lumps are gone, and you're ready to go. Long open times allow you to play with your parts until you're really satisfied. Pretty water resistant, and dries very hard to a tannish color. Very rigid glue line, and easy to sand in my opinion.


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