Question
We are considering installing a dry kiln for poplar lumber, as 90% of our molding sales are poplar. I'm trying to get an idea of how kiln drying will make us more profitable. I understand that a log usually saws out 30% more than the log scale calculates. Wouldn't this bonus more than pay someone to saw it for me? I was told that I could buy premium butt logs for .50 per bd ft. We've been paying .95 per bd ft for FAS kiln dried poplar.
On the other hand, others will custom dry for .10 per bd ft, which seems cheap, but I really don't want the hassle of hauling a lot of lumber around. How much I can expect to gain in value by drying my own lumber?
Forum Responses
It would take more knowledge about your operation to give you precise numbers. (Check the archives here for info, too.)
First, in sawing, on smaller logs you easily will get more lumber than the scale *if* you use Scribner or Doyle scales. With International 1/4 Inch, you will be quite close, although a thin kerf mill will get somewhat more.
The sawmill will make a profit, so you are paying to have the logs sawn (including insurance, setup time, overhead), as well as profit. Plus, the mill may not saw the pieces the way you want them - for example, they may saw 1-1/8", while you could benefit from 1-1/16" thickness.
Anyone who charges $0.10 per BF for drying is way under the market cost and may not even be making profit. For small quantities, $0.20 would be minimal, with many mills charging more as small quantities can be a handling problem. Drying it yourself will again produce lumber that is closer to exactly what you need, especially final MC and stress. Check the book 'Opportunities for DH Drying' from the Virginia Forest Products Association.
Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor
Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor
The molding business is very competitive on volume runs and I'm finding that the key to compete is to have the "package"... trees to trim. For example, local lumber companies buy 3 1/2" s4s poplar material for .48 per lf. They want to deal with me but I need to be in the price range. Buying FAS quality poplar costs me 1.00 per bd ft and, considering a 33% waste factor, leaves me with 1.33 per bd ft I have in the material, which translates to .39 per lf in material I need to sell for .48. Not much money for sawing, sorting, and molding. How would kiln drying my lumber factor into this scenario? One thing I've noticed is that a lot of lumber suppliers often pawn re-graded lumber off on the small operators. Maybe I don't buy 5 truckloads a day, but I should get the quality I pay for! Not to mention how many times I've bought 5/4 lumber that was 1 1/8" in the rough. Frustrating when the profile calls for material thickness of 1 1/8". Doesn't leave anything to clean up molder tracks.
Are you buying rough KD 5/4 lumber? If so, it can be 1/16" scant of the nominal thickness, meaning 1-3/16" is okay. The general thickness of 1-3/16" applies to the cuttings and not to the entire piece - that is, wane or other thin spots outside of the "cutting area used to determine the grade" can be under 1-3/16" thick.
Quartersawn 5/4 lumber has even more tolerance (3/32" scant), due to the excessive shrinkage in thickness for such lumber.
If you are buying FAS, the entire piece must be flat enough (not warped) to be able to be surfaced 2-sides to standard thickness (1-3/16") - that is, minimal warp in FAS; other grades are less restrictive.
Incidentally, 5/4 surfaced lumber can be 3/16" under standard thickness, or 1-1/16".
Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor
I've never met a kiln charge yet that I could call a no-brainer. Although poplar is one of the easiest, if not the easiest, species to dry, there is still the potential for stain, warp, twist and cup. Not to mention the ability to do it profitably enough to recover your capital investment.
The questioner is putting enough thought into the idea to justify his costing, but we have not discussed fuel source, stacking, loading, and amounts of on-hand inventory required to complete the process.
Energy costs vary with types, regions and suppliers. Your wood waste may be the source, however the equipment needed to convert the energy into heat/electric adds significantly to your startup cost. Let's throw in the potential for expansion if the venture proves successful enough.
How does the lumber get into the kiln? We need sticks and a method of stacking. By hand is labor intensive and mechanical processes again raise the capital investment. Do we have a forklift capable of loading a kiln?
If we are giving consideration to hand loading and unloading, this runs into the next issue - on hand inventory. If the lumber is processed by hand, we can not buy in much dead green lumber - it will stain up before we've finished our lunch. Timing is absolutely critical.
If we plan to keep on hand inventory on sticks, it does help reduce drying time and reduces the cost per thousand for drying, but there is an additional carrying cost associated with the venture.
While I disagree strongly with the notion that drying is simple and easy (I once worked for someone that described a kiln operator as someone that sits around, drinks coffee, and watches lumber dry - he no longer is associated with the lumber industry). I do agree, however, with the notion of doing as much as you can in-house. If you can do all the homework, the benefits can be enormous.
We are buying our 5/4 lumber in the rough. 1 3/16" would be satisfactory for me as the thickness, but there are many times that I'm getting boards that are 1 1/16" in the rough. I'm not saying that all the boards are shy of thickness. I'd say 15% would be a close figure. Of course this varies from one lumber supplier to another. I've seen a lot boards that were very thick on one end and thin on the other end.
It is not a no-brainer to saw or kiln dry. There is a lot to learn and ways to do it better. But try a trial run and see if money can be made.
The guy that dries for $0.10 bd ft is in a contract with a broker and he only dries 30,000 bd ft for that price. I'm not concerned as to whether I can do a successful job of drying it or not. I don't think sawing or kiln drying is a no-brainer job. However, poplar is about the easiest and most forgiving lumber to work with.
We built the 3,000 bd ft kiln at our other shop. We had very good results drying our own lumber. The only thing I didn't like about our other kiln design was the fact that it had to be loaded from the end with a custom built cart. Not to mention, 3,000 bd ft wouldn't last two days with the amount of volume that we run now. Our new kiln design will hold 12,000 bd ft that can be loaded with a forklift.
I am sure you are trying to be conservative in your figuring, but this is one area that you can use to compensate for over-run costs.
Again, if it is possible to have air-drying lumber on sticks prior to loading, mother nature can help you stuff the profits in your pocket.
Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor
Comment from contributor A:
I think the above calculation for shrink is incorrect. If you spend $1.00 a bf and have a 33% shrink, then your cost for the remaining product will be $1.52 bf, not $1.33. In other words, if 100 bf costs you $100, if you lose 33%, you have 66 bf left. If you paid $100 for that 66 bf, you have a cost of $1.52 bf.
