Question
I'm looking for feedback on sliding table saws, especially Grizzly and Laguna. Wish I could afford an Altendorf, but that's out of the ballpark for now. Comments welcome on the ones I mentioned and others in that price range.
Forum Responses
(Cabinetmaking Forum)
From contributor J:
Check out Felder saws. I have a Format 4 with 10.5' slider, 10 hp motor, up to 18" blade, scoring blade, etc. Very happy with it. I got it for 12,000 two years ago, but you'll pay more now.
Felder, Laguna, Mini Max, and Paolini are all made in Europe and are all good products. I disagree with contributor R - Felder is just over the top as far as price goes. We have to get a reasonable return on our equipment, and Felder focuses primarily on wealthy folks with nice home shops. Nothing wrong with that, but we need a high degree of accuracy at the most reasonable price we can find. I've never seen a Felder in a commercial shop, though I don't doubt there probably are some out there somewhere. If you're a home woodworker and cost is your primary criteria, you might get by with a Grizzly, but it's quite a compromise. Otherwise, I agree with contributor R that Grizzly is not a consideration.
The major reason for sliders is accuracy, so the carriage assembly is crucial to performance. When we made our last purchase, Paolini was a little cheaper and we thought it was a good product. Overall, we just thought the slider from Mini Max was a better fit for us.
I have to disagree with a few things contributor D said. The Felder is not that expensive compared to his MM. And as far as Felder selling only to wealthy home hobbyists, that sounds like it came from right out of a Minimax salesman's book. In talking to Felder, it appears that they are moving a lot of 900 and Format saws. And they are going into commercial shops that use them everyday.
There are a lot of fine sliders on the market. My personal favorite is my friend's Martin T-73. Take a look also at the Casolin. Very well made Italian saw. But if the Laguna Robland looks good and the price is right, go for that one. It's a good choice and will serve you well for years to come.
If you're really going to make a go of it as a cabinet shop, you have to bite the bullet and buy some professional tools, the first of which is a professional saw. A decent slider is the bare minimum. I think I am not letting myself in for too much flak by saying this. You will be amazed how much faster and more accurate you will be. Have you looked at used saws on the MLS and Ex-Factory sites? There are some good deals there, although it is definitely buyer-beware. Some people might be moving up to a beam saw and don't need their slider or whatever.
A 5 year old Altendorf is going be a better buy than a brand new Laguna, believe me. There's also a reason you'll never hardly see a Martin used, as the wife will go before the Martin (I know mine won't read this!)! You know, we all pretty much started with our Deltas and Powermatics (I still have mine), but they really don't cut it, no pun intended, when it comes to busting up a lift of plywood in a day. If I wanted to, I could stack 4-6 sheets of melamine on my Martin and cut 'em, but I don't want to be that fast. Happy shopping!
The fancy melamine blades do a good job for about 15 sheets of melamine, then need sharpening. And the cut is still not as good as a good slider.
I have been using an old, smaller slider - the MiniMax S250 with a solid steel slider and a crosscut of 59". It has served me very well for over 10 years. I would have (actually did at one point) bought a larger, full-size slider, but can't fit it into my small shop, so had to stay with a small slider.
You can still find this saw on used equipment sites such as Ex-Factory for around $2000. It is a great piece of equipment. The newer MiniMax are much lighter - some would say too light.
As to using a melamine blade, I have done that for many years and buy them from Amana for around $50 each. I use them for several jobs each and probably get around 20-30 sheets with good cuts. Remember, with melamine, you only need one good side (usually), so having both sides perfect is not really important to me. We are a frameless shop and produce upscale woodworking. Yes, you need two good sides for shelves, but even in that situation, only one side is seen at once.
You don't have to spend a lot of money for new and still will get a good saw if you carefully buy a good used saw. Just a note of caution - stay away from the older MiniMax S300W - not a good saw.
The other difference in cabinet construction is they do the typical edge banded melamine frameless box, but also do a lot of high end cabinets and furniture using shop veneered panels and doors (built the meister way). In this case, they do the initial cutting at the vertical, band with solid, then press the veneer, with final cuts and mitering done at the slider. They do a lot of solid wood cutting at the slider and most shops had the crosscut fence in the rear position when I visited.
As I said, all these shops were small to mid size - 3000 to 12000 sq ft - and doing custom work. I am sure the more specialized cabinet manufacturers are using beam saws or nested based. I think it comes down to the vertical being more efficient for sheet goods, but not as good as the slider for other things. With our size sheet goods, the slider can cut almost as efficiently.
