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Union or having your own business?

2/7/20       
Mauricio Member

Which do you think is the better option, being in the Union or owning your own shop? I am currently a Millman, which is part of the Carpenter's Union. I don't make as much as a carpenter, but it is decent and I have full benefits and pension and annuity. 10 years ago I attempted to have my own shop doing commercial stuff and I ended up in prison!

2/8/20       #2: Union or having your own business? ...
John S Member

Mauricio, it sounds like for you the Union is the better choice.

2/8/20       #3: Union or having your own business? ...
rescraft

You can't end a thread with the words "ended up in prison" without elaborating!!!!

2/8/20       #4: Union or having your own business? ...
FM

If you have to ask you’re better off as an employee. To be an entrepreneur you have to live it and breathe it and can’t imagine being an employee.

2/8/20       #5: Union or having your own business? ...
Pat Gilbert

Gees John you are quite assuming

2/9/20       #6: Union or having your own business? ...
cabinetmaker

I would highly recommend a good position where you can move into pm work and supervision.

Do stuff on the side. Smaller scale specialty.

You can make a living and not have the stress eat you alive

2/9/20       #7: Union or having your own business? ...
Michigan Man

In my opinion, if you have to ask this question you don’t have the guts to make it. Union workers generally are looking for a safe place to land, and want someone to take care of them. You are a sheep, and if you want to advance in life than you should seek out being the lead sheep. If you want to understand the toils of ownership, by all means open your own shop and see what the real world is all about. Dealing with customers, deadlines, budgets, Employees, etc, will have you begging for your old 9 to 5 union job back.

2/10/20       #8: Union or having your own business? ...
David R Sochar Member

I also am curious about that last line.

I think that experience behind bards would keep me from shop ownership.

Of course, many prisons have wood working programs as job training and income.

When I signed up for an upholstery class 50 years ago, the instructor's helper (a real upholsterer) advised me to go to Tennessee, hold up a liquor store, get caught and when I got to the Tennessee State Pen, take the upholstery course. 1-2 years, and I would know it all.

2/11/20       #9: Union or having your own business? ...
Harold Pomeroy

David R Sochar Member

"I think that experience behind bards would keep me from shop ownership."

bard, definition
/bärd/
plural noun: bards

a poet, traditionally one reciting epics and associated with a particular oral tradition.

I used to work in a window shop,and one time I had to work for a year with a guy that was a former college art teacher. His main interests were sculpting oversized models of the human form, listening to classical music, and eating garlic. One saving grace was that he would shut up when the pin router was running.

Following a bard around, who would continually recite epic poetry, would be worse than listing to the Pioneer Valley's Largest Collection Of Adult Contemporary Classic Rock On Repeat that was the shop radio.

2/11/20       #10: Union or having your own business? ...
David R Sochar Member

The very real hazard of too much poetry is historically obvious. Poets have a much higher rate of unemployment, underemployment, and eventual suicide. Setting yourself out there as an outsider is a tough way to live.

I wood hate to think one of my typos could cause an otherwise erstwhile wouldworker to contemplate the Last Decision.

But then a Union job would hold the promise of time off. Time to think and contemplate, and maybe start putting together rhymes and lines. Contemplating the roots of the word "mortise" and other woodworking terms and their poetic meanings and leanings.

2/11/20       #11: Union or having your own business? ...
TonyF

David and Harold:

Please don't contemplate
Suicidal poetry
Try Haiku instead

Try to keep on point to the OP's question.
TonyF

2/11/20       #12: Union or having your own business? ...
Alan F.

Mauricio,
Most small businesses don't make money the first 6 months to 2 years, do you have enough cash to sustain living without an income?

Does your record preclude you from borrowing money from a bank, at some point you will need to borrow money.

Do you have the temperament to sell the work, design the work, live with delays as the owner changes their mind?

Will you be able to hie someone to help you work?

Are you willing to learn what it takes to run a business? If so you should start learning the business side.

Find a local SCORE agency and they can help you and answer questions you may not want to post

If you are going to install you may need a contractors license in many states. Will your record preclude you getting a license or getting a bond?

This can be a tough business, if you are prepared on the business and financial side before you start you have a much better chance at success.

Good luck what ever you decide to to do.

A0

Score locations

2/11/20       #13: Union or having your own business? ...
scott brady

Alan, excellent answer in a very professional way. Kudos.

2/11/20       #14: Union or having your own business? ...
cabinetmaker

Alan.

Thanks once again for your invaluable input. Much appreciated

2/11/20       #15: Union or having your own business? ...
Mauricio Member

-I have my contractor's license

-I have money in the bank and don't want to deal with banks/getting a loan....but that's what's making me think about keeping my job....where did I get this money??.....from my job!

-I will most likely not be able to get a loan either since I have a felony and it is for "Making a false statement to a gov't insured agency"...that's how I ended up in prison...it was actually a "camp" and I was never behind bars.....I was there with doctors, lawyers and millionaire businessman....I actually kinda miss it

-The thing is, the place where I work now it is sooooooooooooooo easy.....so easy i'm bored out of my mind. Everything comes to us all cut, holes drilled and all we do is screw parts together. I have been doing this for 30 years and I like taking something from start to finish, which I am capable of doing. You don't get ahead there by having talent, you get ahead by kissing ass.

2/11/20       #16: Union or having your own business? ...
Alan F. Member

Mauricio,

Go to a SCORE office, you need to learn cash flow and sustainable growth without using any financing.

I think an issue to address is at some point you may want a CNC machine or some other heavy iron so if you can't borrow then Auction deals are your source.

See if SCORE can help you.
Good luck
A-

2/12/20       #17: Union or having your own business? ...
rich c.

It took you 30 years to get tired of it? Doing another few years should be a cake walk!

2/13/20       #18: Union or having your own business? ...
TonyF

Mauricio:

It does not have to be one or the other. As cabinetmaker has said, you could do some work on the side, evenings and weekends, which will allow to ease your way into having your own business. You can determine whether or not you have the necessary temperament and business acumen, try to develop a clientele, get known for doing specialty work, slowly build your machinery and tooling acquisitions, etc., all while keeping your day job, continuing to make your wages, and minimizing the risk of having your own business. You may get to the point where you can go full time, or decide against it and decide to do only the jobs that you find interesting on the side.

I don’t know how serious your legal issues were, but they may prevent you from being considered for a project management position, and so any advancement in a company may be limited to positions on the shop floor. Alan makes very good points (I would like to take a moment to offer my appreciation to Alan for the very good business insight he brings to this forum), but you can take a stab at your own business by starting slowly, perhaps as the “garage shop” that many business owners on this forum despise, despite probably having been one when they themselves started out.

I can relate to the concept of not having very interesting work, or feeling that your skill set is being underutilized. I started my business 20 years ago, when the shop I was working for bought a CNC. From that moment on, they only took on work that was more suited to a CNC, and stopped bidding the more labor-intensive, skill based work. At that point, with 25 years as a custom builder, I did not want to be relegated to being an “assembler” and watch my skill set die. As other shops were following suit, I even looked into another line of work, but was unhappy starting over in another field, and so I took the plunge and hung out my shingle.

There is so much more to this business than just building the projects, and if you can navigate all of those situations, then you will find having your own business to be rewarding, from a growth, personal satisfaction, and profitability standpoint. There will be ups and downs, but the long term can be worth it if you learn the business side of the business. Be careful, go slowly, investigate all of the aspects of a potential project, and don’t take on a project just because someone waves a check in your face.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
TonyF

2/18/20       #19: Union or having your own business? ...
Scott

Alan that is a great answer, like others said maybe you should try doing some additional projects on weekends and evenings, it will be extra work, but you will get a feel for what it would be like on a full time basis. You of course will have to make sure you have insurance and or worker’s compensation and whatever else is required in your area to cover yourself and yours and other people’s property.

Michigan Man
Is your answer based on your opinion of Unions or is it an educated answer. Like it or not Unions have their place in certain industries and there are a lot of hard working employees in unions. Reading your post I got the impression that union workers are all a bunch of slackers.

2/24/20       #20: Union or having your own business? ...
GuntherB Member

Maybe it seems like everyone is being a bit too harsh, but the truth is that when you ask this question, it's clear that you are likely to not make it as a business owner. Your mindset needs to change if you ever want to make it on your own, you have to have guts and be willing to go all-in, dedicate your time and yourself fully to your business.

2/24/20       #21: Union or having your own business? ...
Michigan Man

Scott, I did not mean that all union workers are not hard working. It is my opinion that many of them want just to come to work, work there 9 to 5 shift, and go home, and think about other things. They want someone to take care of them for their hard work. The mindset of those type of people are generally not conducive to being your own boss. Starting your own business is going to be quite a reality check for most people. The fact he is asking this question is a red flag to me.

2/25/20       #22: Union or having your own business? ...
rich c.

A business owner enters into an agreement with union or any employees. If the business owner is any good, he will make a nice profit on his workers. To maintain a good work force that will make him money, he compensates them accordingly. Union workers are not a drain on a company. I've worked for plenty of horrible bosses and business owners. Blame goes both ways.

2/25/20       #23: Union or having your own business? ...
Pat Gilbert

Unions are generally not a benefit to the company that uses them.

I have seen them become a burden on the companies they were involved with, GM for example

The local I belonged to disappeared after the union reps absconded with the retirement funds

3/4/20       #25: Union or having your own business? ...
Scott

Michigan man,
I would agree with what you said.
I agree that unions have their place, the problem is that they are put in place so the owners are fair, but then some get to powerful and expect more than they are worth.
In order for a company to do well there has to be give and take regardless if there is a union in place or not. Your employees are your best asset. Treat them well and intern most will go the extra mile for you.

3/14/20       #26: Union or having your own business? ...
Larry K Schweitzer

I think you would be better off staying in the union. You get the benefit of their health & wellness plans. If they still have any retirement funds left when you retire that's nice, but don't count on it. Much of that $ manages to disappear. I was a member of the Teamsters for a short while, couldn't take the level of corruption. Having your own business is no cake walk. There will be times when there is little or no work (is that coming with the latest virus panic?) Do side work but try to do it as if you are running a business. Keep real books for your own education. I think my own shop was relatively successful because I specialized in what others didn't want to do.


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