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Subject: Re: Any idea what could cause this 3 years later?

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Message Thread:

Any idea what could cause this 3 years later?

2/28/19       
Chris

Solid poplar 4/4 BTW.


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2/28/19       #2: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Larry Schweitzer

W/O more information I'll have to do some guessing. The moisture content of the poplar changed from when it was fabricated. Therefore it changed size. If provision had not been made, during it's original fabrication for movement, something had to give.

2/28/19       #3: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
rich c.

High heat, low humidity, no accommodation for the wood to shrink.

2/28/19       #4: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Chris

lesson learned...use ply. At 4 1/2" wide, I wouldn't have thought. This happened 3 years after it was installed BTW.

2/28/19       #5: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Leo G Member

The band trim was glued to the header which has the grain going it the opposite direction. When the humidity changed the header couldn't move and instead split.

3/1/19       #6: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
rich c.

To quote the Big Lebowski, "Sometimes you eat the "bar", and sometimes the "bar" eats you." Sometimes you get away with cheating rules of wood movement for a while, most times it comes back to bite you.

3/1/19       #7: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Leo G Member

HI have a 22" wide curly maple tabletop that I glued breadboard ends onto it. It's been that way since 1990. Knock on wood.

3/1/19       #8: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Dave Sochar Member

3 years, hmmm. The day before I saw this, I would think the practice of cross grain gluing a 4-1/2" pc of Poplar was fine. Then the phone rings "The Mantel is falling apart!" I think it is mantel. If so, and used on what we used to call a fireplace, it could have overheated and stressed the wood.

So, yes, refine your process. Rethink Poplar - almost any wood is better for movement. Soft Maple has become the standard wood for our paint grade interior work. I think if you had coated the end grain of that Poplar with yellow glue where the band crosses it, you would still feel ok about the 4-1/2" in a cross grain situation.

Now, take a look at our doors and you will see large bottom rails up to 10" wide or even wider and you will see a huge potential for cross grain movement. But, those big rails don't move. They don't crack. The reason? I feel it is the species - Honduras Mahogany or rift White Oak - and the construction - real mortise and tenon with coped and stuck profiling, all glued under pressure.

So, there are ways to do what you did and call it good practice. But that combination of Poplar, no restraint other than the band, and heat - perhaps a single overheated event - all conspired to cause that split.

3/1/19       #9: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Jonathan Mahnken

Fill it and touch it up. It might be stable by now. If not use a more flexible finish for this one. It probably would have helped to prime the back side. it is also possible that the affected area was an end cut, or near to an end of the original board where there was already a fracture from the drying process.Next time use plywood or laminated lumber for that width.

3/1/19       #10: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Leo G Member

It's 4 1/2". I don't think plywood is necessary for that narrow a width. If he said a whole houseful of trim started doing this shortly after it was installed then there's an issue. This is 3+ years later on a single casing. Chit happens. Repair it best you can and call it a day.

3/1/19       #11: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Gerry

I find poplar moves a lot more than soft maple. I tried poplar for passage doors for a short while and went back to soft maple for paint grade.

3/2/19       #12: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
KCR

It's also possible that this end of the lumber used was close to the end of the board you used and all the end checking from kiln drying wasn't cut out before assembly. As a result the crack just continued to grow more over time. When cutting off mill-ends I always take a little more off than I would like just to be sure I get out all the end checking. Then flex the scrap end to see if it breaks. If it does I take off a little more again.

3/2/19       #13: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
KCR

Oops! Johnathan said that already, sorry, didn't read everything.

3/3/19       #14: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Pat Gilbert

MC is most likely the problem, I doubt heat is the problem.

Did this occur in the winter time?

3/4/19       #15: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
matt

I agree with Leo G. It does look like the split stile is glued to the header as well as the side piece, and as it shrank, it wasn't able.... thus the cracks form.

I've seen similar cracking on wide door trim with a backband around it. If done by an experienced trim carpenter, it's only nailed on with brads and a little caulk after the first coat of paint to hide the joint. If it's done by a rookie, they glue the hell out of it, and it starts splitting once the winter dry hits.

3/26/19       #16: Any idea what could cause this 3 ye ...
Chris

Thanks fellas.
Im beginning to hate solid wood. Maybe we just use mdf crossband ply or mdf for anything over 2.5" wide where everything is glued together. Coping/mortises etc is just too time consuming in my opinion. 25 years in and still learning. It disturbes me that sometimes things that shouldn't work do (like laminating one side of a huge panel and it stays flat for 10 plus years... and things that should work, dont...like laminating both sides of a panel with the same lamination and it warps in 3 days. Perhaps I need to put my science hat on.

 

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