Veneer

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RE: Old Wood Veneer

7/18/19       
Tommy

What was the thickness of wood veneer in the 18th and 19th centuries, before the special thin slicing machines that we have today?

They are still in use as furniture, can I build with that thickness today and would it be a better product?

7/18/19       #2: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
rich c.

In that time period they didn't have central heating and buildings were drafty. Some of the thick sawn veneers will not handle the shrinkage today. I've seen a lot of antiques with cracked burl and crotch veneer. Also completely missing pieces. There was nothing mystical about veneer in that time period.

7/19/19       #3: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
David R Sochar Member

Before 1875, almost all veneers were shop sawn, using a veneer type saw - a frame saw. Veneer has been used, shop made, for thousands of years.

As the Industrial Revolution kicked in, veneer could be sliced economically and produced in large quantities. No rule, but 1/20th of an inch thickness was mentioned.

By 1900, many shops were producing casework of secondary woods, and then veneering them to doll them up. Using it like wallpaper does not work well. Pressing a veneer to a substrate in a wet glue line is the preferred way to glue veneers.

Unfortunately, the hide glue - the only commonly available glue at the time - was barely adequate for this kind of work. Especially if surfaces were not flat. When it let go, the owners invented 'curb furniture' - cheap goods that when failed, end up on the curb for pick-up by trash or whomever.

The link will take you to Capital Machine, one of the better machine makers. they have been making slicers in Indianapolis, IN since the early 1900's.

Capital Machine - Veneer Slicers

7/19/19       #4: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
Tom Gardiner

Special thickness veneer is still available. 1/42" was the standard a few years ago. I'm not sure what export specs are today. Thinner veneer is possible not only because of the ability to slice that thin but also because manufacturers have the machinery to apply it and sand without sand through.
I have pressed 1/32" veneer and it is a treat. It is less apt to overlap in layup, you can edge glue it for stable joints and sanding is less stressful for me.
1/16" on the other hand is too stiff and prone to splinters. I have seen 1/24" advertised and would be the max thickness I would want to work with.

7/19/19       #5: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
cbww

Machines to cut veneer were developed prior to 1850, both sliced and sawn. The American Empire period, around 1820, is when you start to see more veneered surfaces and maybe lower quality building practices based on cheap labor. The veneer was/is thicker on those pieces but not 1/16". What the actual thickness was will vary. Would thicker veneer make it a better product? maybe. I do like to use thicker veneer but the full 1/16" can be to thick at times for some applications.

Some of the veneers sliced today are just to thin. Hammer veneering, if you even do that type of work, is that much harder with thin veneers.

Hide glue is not a bad glue at all. Its just not the right glue for certain situations.

7/19/19       #6: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
Tommy

I appreciate the above answers, but can a ¼ inch American hardwood of nice design be used as a veneer, or would it have to be less than a ¼, if so how much less?

The reason I am asking is because I have good looking hardwood pieces that are a ¼ inch thick, but they could be planed thinner if recommended.

Thank you.

7/20/19       #7: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
Tom Gardiner

You are kicking at a hornet's nest. I do not consider 1/4" wood veneer. The reason veneer works is that the expansion forces of the veneer are kept under control by virtue of the small cross sectional area compared to the substrate. Once the veneer thickness is greater than 1/8" then the veneer starts to exert forces that make cross grain gluing or wide surfaces problematic.
There are furniture makers that saw thick 'veneers' and use them in pieces but they tend to be small scale and often skins on a floating panel.
I can't understand why someone would want to resaw his or her own veneers after looking at the selection available from numerous suppliers.

9/24/19       #8: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
David R Sochar Member

There are rules, then there are rules. So, if 1/4" is to be thought of as solid wood, then what about these wooden building panels?

3 or 5 or 7 ply, with 2x materials, These panels should soon exhibit self-dectruction by all the logic we have amassed here at Woodweb. Multi-storey buildings are being built in some parts of the world with these. Yet they do not self-destruct - Why?

Plywood. The cross grain movement of the wood can be dramatic. Splitting off stone in a quarry, for example. It is hard to deny. Yet some folks do deny those cross grain properties and go right ahead making these panels.

Now I see them everywhere as 3 ply 8" x 10" panels used by utility companies to provide a clean, clear deck so their heavy equipment can work around without churning up mud. The panels arrive in a stack about 6' tall, and the three-ply panels are lifted of by a fork lift and distributed around.

Cross Laminated Timber

9/24/19       #9: RE: Old Wood Veneer ...
David R Sochar Member

A better way to get the image....


View higher quality, full size image (1024 X 593)


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