Blum hinge drilling locations
With the face frame mounting plate, the most overlay you are going to get is 19mm (3/4"), but you will likely end up with slightly less. This is also affected by which mounting plate you use. Blum offers three different face frame plates for the European hinges.
You need to do a couple of mockups. For instance, on the 120 degree hinge, if you bore it at 6mm (1/4"), when the door opens it will rub the face frame. This may or may not be acceptable, depending on your application.
All these measurements are in metric. It is a good idea to get a metric tape and use metric.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
It might help you to bore the cup holes all the way through for your mockups. There's something about seeing the hinge that let's you "trust" it.
It does not matter what hinges you use--the position of the hinge on the door will always be the same, and that is 23mm from the edge to the center of the bore. The position of the plate can vary, for 90-180, the plate is set at 37mm from the edge of the carcass. This won't change whether you use overlay full-reveal or half reveal hinges. For 45, it can vary depending on your cabinet set-out, but is usually 45mm back from the edge to the center of the fixing screws and for blind hinges, the plates are set at 25mm from the edge of the panel.
In my experience, there are quite a few different figures available, not one size fits all. The "tab" or "dbe" is dependent on a combination of mounting plate height, hinge crank, reveal and overlay or panel thickness.
I have used Blum hinges for years and never once needed to change the position of the bore in the door from anything other than 23mm from the edge. Even the butterfly hinges are the same. The only hinge that does need to be moved is the Blum bi-fold hinge, which needs to have the center of the bore drilled at 13mm from the edge of the door so that the hinge finishes on the edge of the door, in order for it to work correctly.
It has always come down to obtaining the proper hinge plate and the correct position of the plate so you are not trying to adjust the hinge away from where it should be seated. You can get plates ranging from 1mm to 16mm. Blum makes spacer plates to obtain correct positioning, depending on the particular application. I've used spacer plates when hinging doors that retract into their cabinet, and I'm sure that if you used the proper plates you wouldn't have any trouble with doors binding on their carcass.
Doors should be mounted with a 2mm gap between the door and the carcass, so that when the bumper or bump-on is fitted (to stop damage and reduce noise from the door closing) the door runs true along the length of the cabinet.
Although you say you have many variants, the fact is, most major hinge manufacturers are in line with one another when it comes to hinge bore size and fitment position of hinges. The only real variants are the fixing points on the hinges and hinge plate thickness.
I don't follow all of what you’re saying. First the original poster stated:
“I am using both the 170 Deg and 125 Deg Clip-on hinges in a (3/4")full overlay face frame application”
I take that to mean he is using conventional frameless style hinges on frame style cabinets. According to the Blum™ info I have, Blum™ makes three different face-frame adapter plates. Part #175L6600.22 0mm height, part #175L6630.22 3mm height, and part #175L6660.22 6mm height. Using the supplement to the Blum™ Concealed Hinge Catalog, document 1055.01.00 using a 3mm face-frame adapter plate in order to go from an 11mm (7/16”) overlay to a 16mm (5/8”) overlay the boring distance starts at 3mm and goes to 8mm. This would seem to contradict what you have stated. You insist that all boring to the door is at 23mm to center, assuming you are boring a 35mm hole for your hinge cup, 23mm-17.5mm=5.5mm. According to the way I read all this with your scenario and the 23mm to center boring with a 3mm mounting plate, I will end up with a 13.5mm overlay, using the 3mm plate.
The original poster wanted a 3/4” overlay--how will he achieve this? If he goes to a 0mm height plate he will gain 3mm in overlay, so he’s up to 16.5, still about 2.55 short of a full 3/4” overlay (3/4”=19.05mm). I don’t see any other way to do it other than to change the boring location. Could you please explain more on how you achieve this, with the 23mm to center “do all” fix that you have?
You mention the 2mm gap between the door and the cabinet--let me throw this out, because it seems to have come into dispute. Say I’m using a 75M5580 standard straight crank 120 degree hinge on a standard Euro box. I want 17.5mm overlay. How would you achieve that? The ONLY way I see to do it is with a 0mm height mounting plate and a boring distance of 6mm, or 23.5mm to center bore, I could not make it work with 23mm to center. Nor could I keep the back edge of the door from dragging the edge of the end panel. A call to Blum™ confirmed this--I’m interested in how you have overcome this situation. This is not a quirky off the wall situation--we do it everyday in our shop, we use 17.5mm horizontal reveal.
You also state that all of Blum’s™ hinges will work in your 23mm scenario, with the exceptions noted. Blum’s™ Compact 33 requires a 2.5mm boring distance, 20mm to center. How do you keep these from dragging the face when they open when you bore at 23mm? The Compact 38 requires a 3mm boring position, 20.5mm to center--how does this work?
Please tell me more about these spacers, because I have scoured the Blum™ and Grass™ catalogs and I cannot find any that are for standard straight square boxes. The only ones I can find are for angled boxes.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
For a brief moment, I thought all hinges needed a 6mm drilling distance until I tried it in some 175 degree hinges and couldn't achieve full overlay.
Is it possible to choose a drilling distance that would accommodate all overlays with different base plates? This may fit into the KISS method of true 32 which I am trying hard to adopt. Never have to change machine setup, therefore can never screw up door drilling. I already use a full overlay hinge (0mm crank) and then either a 0mm baseplate for full overlay, a 9mm baseplate for half overlay or a 19mm baseplate for inset. I don't have to change the drilling distance for these changes but I still have to change up the drilling distance for a 175 degree hinge and definitely for a compact 38 which won't even open if you used a fat drilling distance.
Let's take the “standardization issue”. The main problem with that is the physics of the different hinges themselves. Have you ever really looked at a 170 degree hinge? It’s an engineering marvel! Look at all the different scenarios we can come up with. Then throw into the mix straight crankings, half crankings, and full crankings. I don’t see how you can come up with a standardized location.
Take a look at the 18mm mounting plate you are using for your inset doors. Do you understand the physics involved with swinging a door on two points where the anchoring point is about 24.1mm (using the Pythagorean Theorem A˛+B˛=C˛) away from the hinge attaching to the mounting plate? I think you are better off to use the full crank made for the inset door as per the manufacturer's specs. In fact the only instance I could find in the Blum™ Hinge Catalog, was in the case of an angled cabinet hinge. In short I think it would be far more complicated to try to mix and match all the different hinges and mounting plates to try to achieve a standard. It’s far easier to use the hinge and mounting plate as it was intended to be used.
With that being said, and you and I are on the same page, KISS. We're all looking for the same answers in that regard. Here’s my take on it: Define what it is you do. Is your standard everyday run of the mill cabinet an inset door, or is it a full overlay, or a half overlay? Define what it is you do, and then when someone wants you to do something different, price accordingly.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
As far as the mounting point in relation to the pivot, it's the same whether you use a hinge with a long crank or a high baseplate, right? It's still fixed to the cabinet the same distance away from the pivot.
I keep things simple by using one hinge. 98% of the time it's with a 0mm baseplate. When I want a different overlay. I use a different baseplate.
I have to change up drilling distance when I want to use different hinges--it's something I have not looked too far into. I just made a mock up and went with what worked for the situation.
From the original questioner
I found a spec sheet and was able to determine the boring distance for each of the hinges. I used a 6mm bore distance for the 125's and an 8mm for the 170 hinges. The overlay works out perfectly and still allowed for adjustment in all directions.
The comments below were added after this Forum discussion was archived as a Knowledge Base article (add your comment).
Comment from contributor A:
Comment from contributor B:
The easiest way would be to download Blum's hinge catalog off their website. They have overlay charts for every hinge, so if you know the overlay you want you can find the boring distance based on your door thickness. I'd still make the mockups but at least that's a place to start that's right 99% of the time.
Comment from contributor R:
Use the Grass 830 tec hinge. Just change the plate to get all face frame overlays from one eighth inch to 3, 4, 5 inches or more.
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