|Home » Forums Ľ Business Ľ Message||Login|
You are not logged in. Consider these WOODWEB Member advantages:
Shop drawings being used as design documents11/24
Lets start with the basic question...
When an architect or designer uses shop drawings as a design tool (making corrections that deviate from the architectural drawings/ specifications), How do different companies go about quantifying/ justifying the cost?
And some background...
We are working on a project in which the design team has used our shop drawings as design documents. We produced a set of drawings (nearly 40 pages 24" x 36") early on in the project that were rejected without review because they "lacked detail".
As the job has progressed on we have spent a great deal of time reworking drawings only to have basic design elements changed time and time again. One area of the project has 3 pages worth of drawings that have gone through 4 different revisions because of design changes.
The other element of this situation is that the architect has looked to us in several parts of the job for multiple options on how to deal with a specific area only to reject our work and come up with something completely different.
My instinct is that we should be compensated at the rate of an architect or design professional as the work we've been doing should have been that of the design team. We typically charge $90-$100 per hour for drafting work on change orders, however the work we've been doing seems above and beyond what we are normally responsible for and I believe we should be compensated as such. I know this will be a hard sell but I've had to bring in an independent contractor for drafting and design work as my team was already onto the next project.
Any experience or insight on a situation like this would be appreciated.
Following, just went through the very same thing. Large commercial job that ended up looking nothing like what the architects originally drew. And we were the ones doing the redraws,not them.
Write the change order/estimate line by line showing revisions from each area. Making sure you note the changes Credit fairly and charge fairly. Divide the cost of the drawings and add it in on the estimate.
I just added for a reception desk and corian tops not originally in our scope and shows not to be in our scope on the prints The expense of the drawing for approval and to send to code is in the cost of the wall and tops
A lot of shops do not bill for shop drawings and miss that cash flow opportunity, but moreover, they miss the opportunity to rationalize the documentation through accounts receivable, that the drawings for the original estimate was done. So itís documneted. I use the AIA G702/703 and although it makes some crazy, itís transparent
From our small shop perspective, we only do detailed and drastic revisions after we have been awarded the project and then it sounds like we do a bit as cab said in that we bury the cost of the drawings in the changes. If it were to get to a point where we felt like we were doing someone elses job for them we just wouldnt submit our drawings until we were presented with the options asked of us.
I could definitely see where architects could get greedy/lazy and let us clarify problem areas (we are on one similar to that now) but if the money isnt there, the drawings wont either.
We have been told that we provide some of the most detailed and informative shops any of our contractors and architects ever see. Pointing out small detail questions that would be thorny and over-looked down the road. I wouldnt go to that level for free but I see it as an opportunity to provide a service that leaves competitive bidders in the dust.
If it's not already in your contract, the charges for the revisions should accompany any revisions... you'll know at the first submission if there is an issue...
Ideally the architect should issue addendums or SK's.
CO every change before the revise and resubmit. Additional drawing time is a cost.
I find it easiest to itemize every change by elevation or room unless its a global change like from laminate to wood veneer. I treat each changed item as an independent "job" so the time is the time to do just that item.
At the end of the CO you can add an alternate deduct if they do a, b and c or whatever is similar and there would be efficiencies in production.
Later on when you are well into the project the efficiencies probably won't exist.
The bigger problem is the lost opportunity to draw more jobs instead of drawing this one over and over.
That is very frustrating. We've been there.
Because of this we have a clause in our contract : "_____ will provide clients with scaled shop drawings for approval. If site conditions or other specifications change after the first round of shop drawings, we will bill $100/hour for subsequent revisions."
Then, more importantly, in our email for when we send the shop drawings: "Please remember that we charge for additional time spent altering the drawings due to substantial deviations from the initial set of architectural drawings- try not to make design changes at this stage."
It is our goal, because we feel it is in the clients' best interest, to never charge for design edits. But if you are doing the drafting work for the architect's design and it wasn't included from the start, then someone needs to pay you to do it. You may not get this work paid for, but it's time to give them notice that you intend to in the future.
we recently completed a project similiar to this except, we were under a very strick time schedule with a hard completion date. We had 8 revisions after out initial shop drawings where completed. I just got tired of once or twice a week getting a new revision having to reprice the job then redo the shop drawings. I finally told them once they COMPLETED the drawings I would redo the shops and submit them with any additional costs associated with them. They paid all the additional costs of redrawing, over time and shipping cost associated with meeting the orginal deadline. They paid all the additional costs, but with doing things in such a "rushed" manner there were three large wall panels ( 8 ft wide x 16 ft tall) that we missed in our take off's. They were included in last revisions and very never truly clouded. We had to supply them at our expense. There were other items that were included in our change order costs that were deleted due to budget restrictions. I have checked with other sub contractors on this job and we all agree that the number of revisions and there timing were just a way to get us to miss something and they could get it for "free". Being in business for over 25 yrs I had dealt with sort of stuff before and when all the BS paperwork came out I was able to build a good size cushion for unexpected costs. So they used that up with extra panels, so anything else they wanted was like pulling teeth to get it from me. We completed the job on time and still held our profit margins but I hate to do business that way. Good customers and good relations lead to a very sucessful job that is a joy to do and something that everyone involved in is proud of (which in turn leads to more work) instead of a job that you hate going to everyday and just cannot wait for it to be over!