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face frame movement12/7
I cannot seem to avoid slight face frame movement in my cabinetry. once it is painted no matter how perfect it is before finishing some of the joints tend to move slightly giving a slight crack or non flush appearance in the finish. We use pocket holes and are extremely careful with glue and assembly and sanding before finishing. I know pocket holes are weaker than mortise and tenon, but would different joinery solve the problem of wood movement really? what about a flush inset job where the frames are more exposed , does anyone have experience how to solve this problem or have tried different methods what works best to void face frame movement?
Have you checked moisture content in wood carefully? Sometimes we have received wood that although kiln dried, was stored where it was picking up a little moisture before it got to us. Remember, you are joining flat grain to end grain so the least amount of movement will show in painted frames, especially as joints get wider. That was the issue for us.
This is a common problem with pocket hole "joinery". Yes, millions use it, no complaints, blah, blah, blah. But it will allow the microscopic movement that is not allowed by a proper mortise and tenon joint.
You need to have glue on the entire end grain surface - put a little on it and then do it again after 3 minutes, then assemble the joint. Glue should squeeze out on all sides, and then be cleaned up. This butt joint may then hold together, or it may move a bit. This is the chance you take with that type of joinery.
Even dowels will allow micro movement, so good procedure there is also with the double glued end grain.
And even with a tenoned joint, again the glue on the shoulders of the joint will help keep those micro cracks from showing. But with a m&t joint, you will have far less chance of seeing these cracks.
It's the glue.
How quick are you processing the face frames? If it's faster than 3 days, you're not waiting long enough.
Make the frame, attach it to the cabinet, with glue. Sand it. Wait for a few days while doing other things for the room. And then sand it again.
You need to let the moisture that is absorbed by the wood to evaporate back out before sanding for the final time.
We've glued a zillion beaded face frames together with pocket screws & TB1 glue. Never had an issue.
Many of the smaller projects(vanity) are mitered with a handsaw, chopped with a chisel and the bead was removed with the tablesaw.
The joinery would make David cry. Its made us money. Nonetheless even with shoddy joinery they never move. We glue them to boxes after the frames have cured for half a day.
I think Leo's got it right. Its not the pocket screws.
It's the glue as others have said. Apply enough that you have glue squeeze out of 100℅ of the joint and let it dry before sanding.
You can also break the joint if you clamp it to the side while the side and deck/ stretchers are not flush to each other.
My prejudices have been exposed. A screwed joint is not joinery in my estimation.
But the good advice here is the use of glue. Even though this is a butt joint and nothing more, glue can help stabilize it.
Once it's glued and clamped to the cabinet it's not going to come apart.
They key for the OP is to use a quality wood glue and keep the joint tight until the glue sets up. If you do this then your problems will go away.
Use to have this problem untill i threw my kreg pocket hole machine in the trash and purchased a lower angle Ritter machine.
Interesting. We have a Castle machine, also with the lower angle and don't have the problem either. Of course, we Bondo just about every joint too.