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Anyone using composite nails (like Raptor?)10/17
Just asking around if anyone is using composite nails in any part of their cabinet manufacturing and general woodworking.
We're considering using them for a few purposes in the shop, mostly in places where we would want to avoid steel (such as parts that might get cut with holesaws, tablesaws, etc) and possibly use them when fastening some items down to the spoilboard of our CNC.
We are looking mostly at using a 15 gauge, 1-1/4" nail. I actually have a sample box on hand, but didn't realize that these were designed for straight nailers rather than angled nailers. I can't even find a cheapo version of a straight 15 gauge gun to test these out. My only option would be to buy the $300 gun they sell (which is probably a nice gun either way).
Just looking to see if anyone has tried using this, such as nailing two layers of particleboard together (laminate countertop) or for fastening small items down to your CNC spoilboard. Looking for experience/advice.
I have the gun and the nails. They are both junk IMO. You can't fasten anything down to the spoilboard with them. And for $300 I expected to have a higher quality gun. Don't waste your money
I have some samples that I got (had to pay for them of course) that I thought would fit our 15 gauge Senco (the most common style of 15g nail).
Turns out, I was unknowingly ordering straight sleeves rather than angled sleeves.
I found that if I spoon fed them to the nailer, i could test it out. I actually was able to nail 3/4" plywood together (poplar core) but MDF was just too dense, every nail shattered before it even began to penetrate further than the dimple left by the gun's hammer.
These were 1-1/4" nails going through 3/4" doubled up.
Hmm, I have a 15 gauge Omer gun, and lots of Raptor nails from 1/2" to 2" IIRC. I mainly used 1 1/4 and 1 1/2.
Before I went to a universal vacuum on my CNC router, I used the Raptor nails to pin down a lot of plywood, some hardwood etc and it certainly worked just fine. I used to shoot the nails through 3/4" hard maple often.
Now I just use the gun in the shop to pin things I will have to machine later on. I can shoot and set a nail in solid hardwood. MDF, ply etc is absolutely no issue. Dont know why others might have had issues. I run 100 PSI in my shop air piping.
I have the 17P.32 and it won't pin two 3/4" 2 sided melamine together with the 1-1/4" raptor nail. Maybe the larger gun they offer will, but not the smaller one that I have.
In order to use it on my CNC I have to drill locating holes in the material to break the top layer of melamine. Then it penetrates into the spoil board. It has a tendency to lift the material slightly off the spoil board if the material is 2 sided melamine.
Andrew must own the larger gun.
Yes I do have the larger gun, that takes up to 2" fasteners... I believe the one you have is for up to 1 1/4"?
I never did much research. Just knew that the other CNC guys I talked to also used this gun and went by their recommendations.
I know I can fire a raptor nail all the way into solid red oak- which was the last thing I did with it. To pin some end checks I glued in some milled boards before they went through the shaper for baseboard.
Interesting, Andrew, thanks for sharing that. I wasn't aware that there were two different size guns available.
We would definitely want the larger gun, but it's good that you are having success with it.
I think I'll pursue this, they seem to have a fair "trial" policy.
Andrew, I would like to know if you are able to nail two sided 3/4" melamine to MDF, such as a spoil board?
LaDonna at 'Raptor' sent me some 1-1/4" nails that have a 'diamond point' instead of the 'chisel point'. I tried them and they performed a little better, but not always pinning the material to the spoil board.
She said she will allow me to trade up to the bigger gun, but their R/D department says that there is no difference in gun performance, just nail size. Could you run a test with two side melamine 3/4" to tell me if you have success.
I'm very interested in seeing the results of that double-layer of 3/4" stuff as well.
I will say that Raptor seems to have a reasonable trial policy. They've told me that as long as we open an account with them (meaning, we've demonstrated that we actually pay our bills), that they can send us a gun and some nails to test, which can be returned.
That's more hassle than I really think we should have to go through, but at least it's an avenue to explore. I really think this technology, if it works, is a fantastic addition to any shop that does CNC or needs fasteners that can be cut, sanded, painted, etc.
In a prior post i said that the 'diamond' point raptor nails did not perform well when pinning 2 sided 3/4" melamine to my spoil board.
By breaking the top layer with a 1/4" drill bit and applying a 'diamond' nail in that area, thus avoiding having to 'break' through 2 layers of melamine, I find that the newer nail does perform well in fastening the 3/4" material to the spoil board.
In a real production run I would need to 'mark' the sheet stock where I would want to put the raptor nails before I cut the panel, thus avoiding any nails inside of a finished part. I do this by programming the machine to 'mark' the sheet as its first cut, 'park' and wait for a 'resume' while I pin the sheet to the spoil board.
By using these nails I will be able to use the raptor gun to pin 2 sided melamine.