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p-lam edges peeling off12/21
Does p-lam move with temperature and humidity changes?
We have a bunch of book cases we built and the faces are peeling off. All of the parts were ran through the edgebander using p-lam that was primed before running them. The pieces were all checked and you couldn't pull them loose without using a sharp putty knife or razor knife. The cabinets were placed in storage (not climate controlled; Mobile Mini metal storage boxes) waiting for the install date and now that we are ready to deliver them we have noticed the faces peeling off. What is really weird is that almost every cabinet has the 2 ends peeling from the top to about halfway down, the top is peeling, and some of the fixed shelves are peeling but very few of the bottoms are peeling off. I am at a loss as to what is happening. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Air in the top of storage container got hot. The heat moved down breaking the bond as it got hotter?
After a little research I have found that laminate can "move". Maybe the expanding/contracting of both the laminate and the core at different rates is popping the edge loose. I am curious if it would make a difference on which type of core we used?
Stupid question- did you band the back of the bookshelf end edges ? Before storage ?
Did the storage unit get hot?
I have heard of this in trucks going into hot areas like Arizona.
Only the front edge was banded.
As far as the heat, some of the cabinets have been in storage since Aug/Sept. I am in Texas so it is still plenty hot then.
Doesn't that seem like the likely cause?
ok- what kind of glue and what model #. I just had a long talk with the Jowat rep the other day.....
These are the only 2 hot melt pellets we use in our bander. This is what the guy from Brandt (Stiles) recommended.
We used the Jowat on the last 2 projects.
I do believe storing the cabinets in those metal boxes has a lot to do with it. I just wonder if it is the heat causing the hot melt to release or if it is a matter of the temperature and humidity changes in the storage unit causing the core and the laminate to swell and contract(at different rates) which is busting the bond loose. Something else I will add is that when the edges come loose the hot melt is all on the wood side and not on the laminate.
I was thinking heat as well till your last post. We had a primer problem several years ago that resulted from primer that had been frozen.
The results were the same, all the glue was left on the board edge, none on the lam.
We use the same 288.60, but we switched to priming by spraying the hpl with contact cement and have never had another problem.
Joe- that sounds worth trying. What kind of contact cement are you using and how are you applying it? We currently use the Sta-Put S200 canister system to do all of our laminating. I am assuming you are talking about using regular contact cement out of a 5 gallon bucket???
we use our regular glue that we spray tops & lay up panels with, wilsonart 800.
Although we have also used our canister glue occasionally, it is more expensive.
You just spray on a thin coat as if you were going to laminate it to a top, let it dry for an hour and band.
I'm sure others will have opinions on it, but I got the advice here years ago & it has served us well.
Both glues are sensitive to heat?
I don't know the answer but it seems like the heat is the more likely cause?
aside from the possible glue issues you should have used PVC edgebanding and not HPL. Laminate does expand and contract with changes in humidity. In your case it could have sheared the glue line in the long dimension.
Unfortunately PVC was not an option in this case.
I am starting to think this whole problem stems from storing the cabinets in the metal storage buildings w/out any climate control. That seems to cause issues in each material used which in the end is causing the failure. I guess we need to find better storage options.
Thanks for all of the responses.