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Haunching tenons

12/10/14       
Mack

I was absent the day they taught tenon haunching in architectual millwork school. Nor do I have the space or budget for a relishing machine. How do you make clean, accurate haunches?

12/11/14       #2: Haunching tenons ...
Larry

What is a relishing machine?

12/11/14       #3: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

Larry,
Check this out.

Relisher

12/11/14       #4: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

Oops, only got the picture. A lot more if you look around the site.
Joe

Greenlee

12/12/14       #5: Haunching tenons ...
David R Sochar Member

There may a bit of difference in terminology here, but I learned a haunched tenon is one that has a shorter tenon length near the outside end of the rail. With square edge stock, this could mean a 3" wide rail would have a 2-1/2" wide tenon at full length - say 2", but the outside last 1/2" would be shortened to only 3/8", and the mortise would match that. This is to give a bit more strength than just cutting the tenon off at 2-1/2", and prevents seeing thru the end of the joint or things going out of alignment should things move a lot.

With passage doors, I set a fence on the band saw and make one stopped cut for the length of the haunch, and then another stopped cut for the width. Two set-ups, two passes for each rail end plus handling. I'd love to simplify, but that hauncher looks like it would make relish if you got too near it.

First time I have seen a relisher, Joe, so thanks. I have heard of them, but could not guess beyond something that was in the back at the deli.

12/12/14       #6: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

We use slot and tenon for window work and narrow stile doors. The only time we do any haunching is on entry doors. We use the sliding saw for the cheek cut and the band saw to finish it. Accurate enough for us.

For windows, I think the shaper with a rebate cutter could be fast and accurate. Either with a sliding table with workpiece on edge or against the fence vertical with a pushing fixture.

David,
Donovan has a nice collection of early machine age machinery for window and door making. Its very interesting and sure would like to see that shop in action sometime.
Joe


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12/12/14       #7: Haunching tenons ...
Larry

Thanks for the link. Interesting site. Never heard of relishing before. Wonder where the term comes from. Also the relishing drill doesn't seem like it would produce a matching cope to the part?
On the same site he shows a 36" jointer, yikes. I have a hard time thinking I'd push a 36" wide board over that thing.

12/13/14       #8: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

Larry,
I do not quite understand it either. I have some 100 year old windows hanging around the shop. They are haunched through tenon but not "relished". Looking close they put a hollow chisel cut on the end of the rail where the haunch occurs. Maybe the relish was a high production way to do this.

I do not understand why this had to be done. I have single tenon tooling that I am able to haunch without any additional cuts on the tenon. Possibly it was in the design of early tenoners and tooling.

Maybe one of the OWWM guys will jump in and explain this.

Joe

12/31/14       #10: Haunching tenons ...
Jude

my understanding of the term"relish" comes from timber framing. it is the part of a tenon that could break off when pegging a joint. meaning the wood would fail parallel to the grain. when creating a haunched mortise and tenon, you would remove a part of the tenon with that same orientation. so perhaps the relisher is called the relisher because it removes the relish of the tenon. (?)

creating the haunched tenon is straightforward (and has been covered) creating the matching mortise is easy with a square chisel, or if you design your groove to line up with and be the same width as the thickness of your tenons (that is my usual method)

Mack: how do you normally cut your tenon cheeks? can you cut the haunch at the same time, with a slight adjustment in setup? for example if you use a dado set on the tablesaw, just remove the same amount with your rail on edge.

1/1/15       #11: Haunching tenons ...
Mack

On a Griggio G4 tenoner, so no that won't do it as you've suggested. I like the bandsaw method the best and is what I've always done but without the fence. The fence really helps. I had a run in with my tablesaw a year and a half ago and I try to only rip with it.

1/1/15       #12: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

Here is more info about relishing as it relates to windows on the AWWM site. Looking at the picture on the site I now see why it was necessary. The tenon in this historic work comes out in the sticking so it is necessary to do something offline either with a relisher or mortiser. On all my tooling the tenons fall below the sticking making it easy to haunch.

Just for kicks I tried doing window size workpieces on the shaper. One pass and easy to keep precision. For small quantities the saw and bandsaw is probably what a I will continue to do.

Mack,
The G4 is made by Colombo. Is it possible to adjust the horizontal heads to cut a haunch by turning the workpiece. I think on this machine they do not adjust independently so that may not be possible. Or if there is enough room to stack a rebate head on the vertical shaft and come back with a second passage to do the haunch. This gets complicated with the saw blade though. On our Colombo 180 the saw could be shut off and used as a end stop for operations like this. Just thinking out loud here, probably easier to use another machine.
Joe


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More on haunching

1/4/15       #13: Haunching tenons ...
Mack

My G4 was made by Griggio but it's the same tool. I don't like to adjust it and don't unless I absolutely have to.

1/4/15       #14: Haunching tenons ...
Joe Calhoon

It's a rebadged Colombo AT 100. Colombo produces tenoners for them.
Your right, more of a dedicated machine and not flexible like the larger tenoners.

Joe


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