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Exterior Door Weathering

12/4/15       
Geoff

On our exterior door units we use q-lon for weather stripping. From reading here I have learned about other options. Before I try something different I would like to get some first hand experience on the other options.

What type do you use, why is it better, durability, ease of installation, color options and where to buy?

12/4/15       #2: Exterior Door Weathering ...
David R Sochar Member

We use a lot of Q-lon, since it is familiar and available. If we were to send out a unit with another type, we would probably get complaints about why we did not provide for it. Asking homeowners what they wants intimidates them and confuses things, so I usually don't ask, though it is made clear in the specifications that go with a proposal. Builders also don't want to be bothered. I don't prefer Q-lon because it is mushy, stiff and makes for less than firm closure.

We also see some spring bronze used in our doors. It is an old style system that requires time and skill to get right, or else it will buckle and pucker. Done correctly, it is pretty good, and will last for decades. It is from a period (1930's) where there was no alternative, and "pretty good" was more than acceptable. It has to be installed after all finish and fit and hang, and little parts for where the door meets the sill and for paired doors have to be fashioned - bent - by hand, as needed. Skill and experience, I'll repeat. The photo shows the bent parts that go around a strike plate that demonstrate the on-the-fly skills needed to make this a good install.

A third way is a silicone bulb set into the corner of the jamb rabbet. This is a small bulb (we use 3 diameters, as needed) with a tongue that fits into a milled groove, sort of like Qlon. We use a specialized router ( from Resource Conservation or Pemko) to mill the groove, and it can even be done on units that are installed. This method does not require oversizing the jamb rabbet - a 1-3/4" thick door requires a 1- 3/4" rabbet. The door can then close against the wood of the jamb, and the seal works down in the corner.

We have gone back on spring bronze jobs and milled in the corner bulb after the fact to quiet the complaints about the spring bronze. If not done well, there will be complaints, and if we can't get it right the first time, there are doubts a 2nd or 3rd try will be any better, so we'll just use the bulb. Another thing the spring bronze does is make a noise like toilet paper on a comb in the right wind conditions. Can be very annoying, and will make your phone ring. I tell my wife that is the sound of premium weatherstripping, but she ain't buying it. The dog howls like a wolf when he hears it.

On thing I'll mention: we have gotten to the point where we like to make a slight bow or crown in the latch stile so that there is tension on the bolt when the door is latched. This makes the door tight against any seal top and bottom, especially good when the door contacts the rabbet edge. There are no rattles or loose things if done right.

We use bronze interlock for the door bottoms, either the wide parts with the lip integral, or a narrow piece that fits on our Oak sills that will mate with J-mold brass on the epoxy sealed door bottom. A vinyl bulb in an aluminum extrusion is used for the adjustable riser in aluminum sills (Endura) when they are used.

Joe Calhoun at Cascade Millwork does a lot of 'European' style doors that have better, more engineered, or 21st Century weatherseal solutions. They require certain adaptations that make the door edges a little different, but you can see how they seal better. Drawings are available here:
http://www.cascadewoodwork.com/technical.html

We find all we need at Pemko for the silicone bulbs, door bottoms, etc.


View higher quality, full size image (768 X 1024)

12/7/15       #3: Exterior Door Weathering ...
robin Member

Q-lon seals are used a great deal over here in the UK. The most common is QL 3009 which we know as aquamac 21. I dont know why Schlegel have 2 brand names.

This seal can be used as both a compression and wiping seal, depending where the groove is positioned

Weatherseals are best when used with multipoint locking systems since they help to compress the seal. Traditional mortice locks only have a latch, which was never intended to compress a seal, only hold a door shut.

12/7/15       #4: Exterior Door Weathering ...
Geoff

Thank you for taking time to respond to my question...helpful information. It would be great to hear some other opinions.

12/8/15       #5: Exterior Door Weathering ...
Kevin Jenness

I like to use Resource Conservation Technologies silicone rubber flipper seal (WS 14 or 15) on the side and head jambs. It comes in black (and maybe white), compresses to 1/4", is less squishy than Q-lon and holds up well. RCT and Pemko make some active sweeps that drop down to seal when the door closes, work well but require a rather large groove in the door bottom and don't mate well with 3-point latch systems. Otherwise I use one of several fixed silicone rubber sweeps and tracks from RCT.

12/8/15       #6: Exterior Door Weathering ...
Joe Calhoon

Dave, Thanks for bringing up my web site. I need to update it as we have made some improvements to the product. But you still get the basic idea for the German door and window. They seal very well. I have a French pair (I know you don't like that term) off my living room facing west with triple gaskets and warm edge IG. You can lay down in front of those in 0 degree blowing snow storms and not feel a bit of draught.

That said we still do a fair amount of North American style doors just because they cost less and some people prefer single mortise lock sets with traditional thumb latch hardware. With the thicker frames of the Euro doors the RO needs to be larger also.

I have tried unsuccessfully to adopt some of the Euro gaskets to these. The problem is the typical frame (jamb) is too thin to run the gasket groove in the other direction so as to have continuous seal at the corners and bottoms. Like Kevin we tried the RCT gaskets and they are good but just do not work on the bevel side. Especially on 2 1/4" thick doors. The automatic and adjustable door bottoms from RCT are way better than Pemco. We have had good luck using the adjustable bottom with multipoint hardware because the groove width is 16mm. Still a little weak in the corner if that is your only seal.

So, I dislike Q lon but we have gone back to using it on these type doors because it seals the bevel side better than most other types.

Robin, Most of our woodworking traditions come from the UK. The doors are similar but somewhere along the way we lost the good joinery and thickness of the frame. Probably to satisfy high production and most houses are frame construction not masonry. We have been using Aquamac 21 on our double hung windows as both a compression and wiping seal. Rover Plastic in Italy has developed a gasket that out preforms the Aquamac for double hung work. Some shops in the UK are using this. Rover # A452. I am working on a better sealing door using this gasket that will accept all US hardware and hinges. The frame thickness will be 1 3/4" compared our typical 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". The Aquamac 21 is smaller in section than the typical Qlon we are talking about. It is available from Amsbury. They tell me this product is made in the UK.

Roverplastik Catalogue-2015-Weatherstrips-for-wooden-frames

1/10/16       #7: Exterior Door Weathering ...
Scott Ernst Member

Website: http://customfurniture.us

I used to use Q-Lon but I've made the switch to the Resources Conservation Technologies products. They are all silicon (no foam inside) so they are really flexible. That allows them to form to varied openings. They also come in rolls instead of sticks which gives you lots of options for different size openings. There are several different sizes that all fit into the same groove but give you options for more or less of a gap between the door / sash and the jamb. I mostly use the "V" shaped seals but they also have bulbs. If you're working on an old opening that isn't a consistent size, you can cut a little of the tongue off of the bulb and stick it into the end of a piece of the next sized bulb and fill up a bigger gap. RCT also makes a couple different sizes of flipper seals (sweeps) that go in the same groove. They can also be installed into an aluminum track that RCT makes which makes them a bit more industrial. All of the products come in white, black and brown. All the way around I find it to be a much higher quality product than the Q-Lon.

1/23/16       #9: Exterior Door Weathering ...
D. John Bishop

I have not seen that type of work in a very long time great job.

11/8/16       #10: Exterior Door Weathering ...
Maritza Prokop

We have not done weather stripping for protecting our doors and windows from hurricane, storms, etc. but we have installed impact windows and door for better protection. For installation, we had consulted professionals like http://stormguardwindowanddoor.com/impact-windows-impact-doors-delray-beach/ to install door and window.


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