My shop here in California, Project is for a gas station. We built the attached commercial grad front desk and back showcase display, all grey laminate and particle board melamine cabinets.tempered glass and security locks on drilled glass to fit the locks and all lighting High out pot fluorescent lamps with cables (NOT connected).I had to demolish the old cabinets to install the new ones.
project site 2 hrs away driving.
project has to be installed after Mid night so the business do not stop.
My cost was around 3600 Total.
I'm charging my customer $7500.
He thinks it is kind of high price,
what would you charge for project like this.
i want to be fair and do not lose his future business.
I appreciate your input.
Thank you for response
Cost includes material and labor.the backs of tall unites are 3/4 lam plywood to hold the double brackets tracks also it there is laminate at all exposed sides, 3/4 P wood laminated base.
Counter tops 1" with 3mm PVC tape
Sorry I did not mention the shelves Only Plexiglas 1/2.($200) per sheet but the rest of project is T glass.
How you calculate such project you can not go 170 or even 200per
I still welcome your inputs.
Did he tell you it was high when he signed the contract, or only after seeing it installed? If he signed the contract, the price is the price. Tell him you think what you pay for a gallon of gas is kinda high too, and what he charges for a candy bar is much higher than the grocery store.
You owe it to yourself, family and business to charge EVERYONE what it takes to cover ALL your costs PLUS your profit and don't let anyone try to have you cut the price down. You're better off losing the job than working for free, or worse, at a loss. If you can run a more efficient operation and cut your costs then reflect that in your pricing if you need to in lean time but there is nothing wrong with pocketing the profits from lower costs. The 3 most profitable commercial shops in Northern California charge the most for their work. The ones who don't charge enough come and go.
From glancing at your pics I'd say you didn't charge enough because:
1. You didn't produce a catalog item with existing jigs and fixtures this is custom work.
2. There is at least 8 hours if not 16 of design drawings, shop drawings and layout on a $6k+ software package.
3. The items are too large to be moved or delivered by a single person. 2 persons x 4 hours drive+ 1 hour delivery is 10 hours just to deliver How much is your labor rate + truck?
4. Installation was after hours which means you or your employee installed after the spending a whole day at the shop. How much more is your overtime?
This guy is in my market, southern California. I wonder if there is just more illegal labor here than other parts, or if it's just more accepted here. There is a shop my size in the suite next door and there must be 8 different guys working out of the same 5,000 sq-ft shop. None carry any GL or WC insurance. It obviously drives prices down. This pricing story is more the norm than the exception.
costs of 3600 ? does this include everything including the drive ? Only you can determine the price, are all your bases covered ? I would venture to say @ the going market price it is too low. But, again only you can determine this. Are you sure you have the glass covered ? And, markup on it ?
I would say that if you offer great service on time, you should be able to get past worrying about working for this guy again. Today's job has something to do with tomorrows but not at the risk of low or no profit.
If the cost was $3600 including shop /site labor, travel, materials, and shop drawings, but not overhead (shop rent/ hydro etc), you likely did well, but not ridiculously so. Ultimately if you had under-priced it I doubt he would have given you more to finish it, you took the risk and did the job well, if he didn't get other prices to compare, that's his business.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.