Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Evaluating a new employee for installations

4/9/15       
Joseph D. Christman  Member

Website: IntegrityDesignBuild.com

I'm an installer. I typically work with one helper and scale up for bigger projects, so I work closely with any employee. Needless to say, we can't afford too many mistakes, because any error is bound to be very expensive. Additionally, the maxim of "good help is hard to find" is true, and many of us learn to live with some level of compromise.

I have a new helper I hired a couple months ago. He is both smart and honest, and mostly seems able to pick things up. Occasionally though, he seems to space out or be distracted, which can (and has) result in potentially costly errors. To me, these seem largely to be problems with lack of rigor.

The other potential issue seems to be his health. Though he's only in his late 20s, and in ok shape, he pops Tums multiple times per day, has frequent headaches, and sounds a little stressed out in his personal life.

I've invested a fair amount of time in him so far, but am not sure whether he will last much more than a year.

My questions to you are:
What benchmarks do you use to evaluate your employees?
Do you have any standards about an "allowable" level of mistakes? (Because we all make them from time to time.)
In what ways do you let other factors (like health) guide your employee evaluations?

I appreciate your guidance.

4/9/15       #2: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
John S  Member

Hi Joseph,

I will address your questions one at a time.

First, on employee "benchmarks", I presume you are talking about new employees, not a seasoned veteran. My first thought is always towards safety, is this person safe and thoughtful of other's safety. Second, are they productive in the tasks I assign to them. Third, are they trustworthy, do they show up every day and put honest effort into their job. Fourth, do they show interest in what they are doing and motivation to grow with the company. Ideally, the new employee will have all of those traits, but in reality that is rarely the case. For me though, as long as they are safe, show some motivation and aptitude for the job, they'll get their chance. No one starts out being "great" at their job.

Do I have an "allowable" level of mistakes? Yes, don't make the same one twice. The old saying goes, "If you never make a mistake, you're not trying hard enough!" and I think that's pretty true. An employee who makes a mistake is given a little (or a lot) of counseling. Not just "don't do that again", but I delve into it a little and ask "Why did you do that?" "What did you expect to happen?" And then we talk about how to not make that same mistake again. That doesn't mean I fire every person who makes the same mistake twice, but there is a different conversation the second time around.

On the last question, you need to be very careful on how you handle an employee's health issues. Remember it's not their fault that they get sick (if they truly are sick). I go strictly on a case by case basis. Does the illness prevent them from doing the job safely and effectively? Are there any "reasonable" accommodations I can make to make the situation better? I have never fired someone for being sick, but I have fired people for not showing up to work. Personally, I am very careful on how I handle people with health issues. Remember other employees can also see what's going on. You don't want to be too lenient that other people say "I'm going to play that game too." But you also don't want people to think you will fire them if they miss a day.

4/9/15       #3: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Jim Member

I hate to say this without knowing the person but it sounds like he might have a medical issue or a drug / alcohol issue. Try to observe if mistakes or lack of attention happen on a regular schedule. Certain days of the week or how many days in between episodes.

The level for mistakes is what you can afford.
With me the level of mistakes is to be below 1% of work units.

Concerning employee evaluations, their health shouldn't play a part in it.
It is an evaluation of: Can they do the job. Allowing other factors in just leads to ruin. If you let a health factor in, what is the next one? Sex, Race, Religion, etc. It is a can of worms that you don't want to go down. Evaluations are a evaluation of whether the employee regardless of health, sex, race, religion can do the job. I have let go of people who were good workers but they had personal issues which interfered with them getting the tasks done correctly on a timely basis. My job is to ensure that work gets done correctly and timely on schedule.

On another note, if you were completely sure about him, you wouldn't be asking on here for advice.

4/9/15       #4: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Foster Brooks

Sounds like he is an alcoholic. Continue to employ him at your own risk.

4/9/15       #5: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
mark

Or... consider trying to live off of the wage that you are paying him. Would you have ulcers?

4/10/15       #6: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
make do

I have lived on a lot less, and ulcers are caused by a virus.

When one's liver becomes so diseased that one is vomiting blood, well, then it's probably too late to lament the fact that one is a drunk.

4/10/15       #7: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Dropout Member

Without commenting on anything else, frequent headaches and stomach issues could be as simple as diet. I have to avoid quite a few things so as not to suffer from both of those issues.

4/10/15       #8: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
John S  Member

Wow, to assert that someone who has frequent headaches and takes Tums a few times a day is a raging alcoholic is a huge stretch in my mind. That is just one of a thousand possibilities.

Personally, I would keep a close eye on the situation, ask questions and if I start seeing things like staggering, coming in consistently late or notice a strong smell of alcohol on his breath, then I would address it head-on.

4/10/15       #9: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Paul Downs

Does he have health insurance? Can he afford to go to the doctor? (Copays and deductibles can be too much for low paid workers.) If he was a machine, and one of his parts was broken, would you invest in getting it fixed? Or just watch it deteriorate?

4/10/15       #10: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
david

I agree wholeheartedly..... when does indigestion and headaches equate to being an alcoholic. I see why you work in the woodworking industry, not in the health care industry!!!!

4/11/15       #11: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Jim Member

I do not believe it is that much of a stretch to think that he may be an alcoholic. I have had the same situation happen to me several times and each of those times the person has turned out to be addicted to alcohol or drugs. The first few times I couldn't understand what was happening and learned later what the real answer was. Now when I see the same symptoms, that is where my mind goes. Call it experience.

Either way,if the person isn't doing the job correctly and you are concerned about his ability, maybe it is time to cut the cord.

4/13/15       #12: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
T

Wow! Amazing how everyone has somehow come to a conclusion of alcoholic/drug addict with the barest of facts. No where in the OP did I see the mention or thought of having an actual conversation with the employee to air your concern and perhaps get a valid response to work with. You hired a human vs. purchasing a machine. Big difference.

I used to ride my Harley with a friend on the weekends that popped Tums like candy. Went on for the better part of 18 months. When he finally went to the doc, they said "shoulda seen us way earlier". Long story short, we buried him less than 3 months later from end-stage stomach cancer. RIP Larry

FWIW. if you can put Foster Brooks and alcoholic in the same thread than you're older than dirt, same as me. No one under 55 would get that....

4/13/15       #13: Evaluating a new employee for insta ...
Dino Martin

I have worked in many companies, many different industries, and invariably, when one sees an undependable guy who has headaches and gut issues, he's a drunk.

It is so prevalent that it's not even funny. Probably the most common addiction you will see. I have seen guys drink themselves to death before they reached 30. Others somehow make it into their 50s. But they all end up the same way, dead. It is insidious and I won't tolerate working with them.

Based on a lifetime of experience my money is on alky.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)