Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

How long do you keep customer files?

10/23/15       
Derek S.

I have customer files dating back to when I started this company in 1991. From time to time previous customers will ask us to do some additional work and in those circumstances it can be helpful to review their original file. But for the most part, they take up a lot of space. I'm wondering how long the rest of you hang on to customer files?

10/23/15       #2: How long do you keep customer files ...
Short Timer

Fifteen minutes, tops.

10/23/15       #3: How long do you keep customer files ...
Leo G

Store them digitally. Electrons don't take up much space.

10/25/15       #4: How long do you keep customer files ...
Karl E Brogger

Once the job is out the door it goes in the circular file as soon as I clean my desk off. That can be weeks or minutes later.

10/25/15       #5: How long do you keep customer files ...
Cabmaker

A mistake I made was to not pay attention to changing storage media and changing operating systems. I used to store data on floppy discs. Then I think I did it on CDs'. For a while I had this Iomega-type floppy disc and there were also some pin drives.

Lots of these floppies are still around but none of my computers will load the old software anymore.

10/26/15       #6: How long do you keep customer files ...
Leo G

We were cleaning out the house and I found an old USB "A" drive (3 1/2" floppy). I plugged it into my laptop and found an old floppy hanging around and it read it. So if you have the drive you can probably convert the media

10/26/15       #7: How long do you keep customer files ...
Alan F.

There are two issues, one is what is legally required, two what do you want to keep to service the customer in the future.

contracts, invoices 7-10 years
shop drawings paper, 7 years
shop drawings PDF infinite
finish samples 7 years.
If you keep payroll records with jobs well that's a whole other issue.

Arbitration or a lawsuit may take years to develop and when you need documents.
In a typical owner sues GC dispute, all subs get to "play", the ability to limit your exposure is based on the detail and documents you have.

IRS and state tax agencies, usually 7 years.

Most laminates are discontinued, finishes have aged, hardware has changed so from a service the customer standpoint not a lot of value other than matching but site visit is required

10/26/15       #8: How long do you keep customer files ...
Derek S.

Thanks Alan,

The 7 year date is one that I've known about, and since our customer files have both contract documents and project spec type information, I had thought that perhaps that would be a good benchmark. Eliminating anything prior to 7 years ago will allow me to empty half the volume of my file cabinets, so I think I'll use that approach. I appreciate your understanding and appropriate response.

Derek

10/26/15       #9: How long do you keep customer files ...
Alan F.

Typically a customer will call two to 4 weeks after you have disposed of all documents to remodel or expand the space. If you are slow on work, clean your files out.

10/26/15       #10: How long do you keep customer files ...
Cabmaker

Derek,

Sorry for the inappropriate response.
I gather you don't store anything digitally.

10/26/15       #11: How long do you keep customer files ...
Derek S.

Cabmaker,

We store lots of stuff digitally now-a-days, but 20 years ago...not so much. Every one of our customer files contains information on species, profiles, finish formulas, etc. This information has saved me dozens of trips to jobsites when, for example, a customer's dog ate one of their cabinet doors.

I don't think I'm up to the task of scanning hundreds of projects worth of data, but there is value in keeping it around. How much value is the question.

10/26/15       #12: How long do you keep customer files ...
Cabmaker

I am not advocating that anybody scan old paper documents, that would be entirely too tedious and would yield very minimal benefit.

What I am doing, however, is flagging that whatever format you store your data in make sure it is retrievable later. If it is in banker boxes then put a label on the box. If it is based on CAD systems that may or may not be relevant later then maybe you want a PDF format.

Storage without retrieval is just landfill. It could be digital landfill but landfill nonetheless.

10/26/15       #13: How long do you keep customer files ...
Mitch Suber  Member

Website: subercustomshutters.com

I keep paper records on average 10 years. All files on computer, generated from those paper documents have all stayed in storage, as I have never needed to cleanse them. The Cds, and other files saved from my computer don't even fill up one of my drawers. By reducing the paper file folder down to the basic and critical information, 10 years worth only fills one shelf in my storage space. While I appreciate how valuable space is, information is extremely valuable and expensive to obtain a second time when I already have it in my hands. I do a lot of repeat business with my old customers. Saving old dimensions, paint colors with the brand, and knowing the profiles used on older work has saved me many thousands of dollars. I recently used the old files and sent mailers out to customers in that 8 to 10 year old range, and picked up several nice orders that I would have probably missed out on if I had not had that information.

10/27/15       #14: How long do you keep customer files ...
7 year itch

Anything that is digitized or can be digitized should be kept for your own business and marketing purposes. You collected the info, it cost you money to do it, why not retain it? It might be useful, as has already been mentioned.

7 years is absolutely meaningless as far as the IRS (and most any other tax agency) is concerned. If you file a Schedule C as part of an individual return, once 3 years has elapsed after the date you filed the return it's generally beyond what they can audit.

Same thing if filing as an S or C corp or LLC or whatever. Beyond 3 years after the return is filed generally equals no longer subject to audit.

For example, say you file your 2015 return on 4/15/16. Generally, after 4/15/19 the 2015 return will no longer be subject to audit.

Unless, of course, you've been busy committing some sort of fraud in the filing of any tax return, in which case there is no statute of limitation, fraud means open season on everything from the date the fraud started.

Or, you've gotten some sort of notice and/or signed some sort of tolling agreement that gives them more time to examine your return(s).

If you're honest and haven't committed any fraud in reporting your transactions or done anything that could possibly be construed to be fraudulent, you can generally junk anything 4+ years old. Or keep it all digitized just to be on the safe side.

I'm speaking in very broad generalities and this is not advice. Always consult your own professional tax counsel if you have any question about your situation.

10/27/15       #15: How long do you keep customer files ...
Pat Gilbert

If they find anything the statute of limitations does not apply.

10/27/15       #16: How long do you keep customer files ...
MarkB Member

+1 to Pat's response. My niece went through an audit with her business a year or two ago and the audit is 3 years unless they find anything they can deem fraud. Then its 7, and likely as far back as they want to go but what they told her was "3 years unless they find fraud THEN 7".

I would ultimately like to store customer documents and especially color samples indefinitely but I dont think that it too realistic. I think most major shops I have ever read or seen are lucky to keep any physical samples for 5.

10/30/15       #17: How long do you keep customer files ...
Chris

Job done, client happy=trash...next.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)