Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Too much work?

6/9/16       
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

I have more work than my current crew can handle in the time we have to do it. My thought is to hire more guys. Is this a rookie mistake? I'm in the stage of business in which I have to watch cash flow extremely close. (maybe that's something for every stage of business). Being able to get more jobs done in less time seems logical. Is it possibly a better approach to split the day into two shifts and have 16 hours a day of production and those hours are straight time. I do have the room in my shop to utilize 1 or 2 more people. With 5 guys and me (I sell jobs and design for production order materials etc) is it a better scenario to have each guy do a specific task. At what number of guys do you find it more productive to have each guy specialized? I have a CNC machine, edgebander etc. I'm quickly converting to Frameless construction but the next 2 jobs are Face Frame and inset doors respectively. The inset job is 80K and has some painted distressed and glazed cabinets.

6/9/16       #2: Too much work? ...
Sloehand

Which question do you want to have an answer for?

6/9/16       #3: Too much work? ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

All of them. I have more work than I can handle. What is a good approach to getting it done? Hire more? Or are there other techniques to get it done with current staff?
Sloehand, how many guys do you have? How do you approach a problem like mine?

6/9/16       #5: Too much work? ...
Mike

First of all, who do you propose hiring that you can bring in and be productive from the beginning, second,hard lesson to learn, but over promising and taking to much work can be just as deadly or more so than not having work..Can you sub out some of it such as frames and doors to Conestoga or the likes?

6/9/16       #6: Too much work? ...
Family Man

Nick, in my experience hiring only works when the timeframe that is overbooked is very extended (six plus months) as hiring and training take a lot of time out of productivity.

My best bet has always been to keep track of the jobs on the board of where they are actually at in the stage of being needed. So often homes run behind that if you can keep your finger on that and have jobs jump over one another on the production schedule most of the time you can just plain plan and logistic your way out of the problem. But it takes extreme communication with your clients and being very organized.

Lastly, if you make everything- try outsourcing some. Doors & drawerboxes are the easiest. Good luck-

6/9/16       #7: Too much work? ...
Pat Gilbert

What Family Man said.

Residential usually runs behind schedule, that might help you.

Also make sure you are utilizing what you have as in you should be able to bang kitchens (if you outsource doors) out in a matter of days.

What software are you using?

6/9/16       #8: Too much work? ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

Those are good points. I do outsource doors and drawers, not face frames although I have thought of doing that, does it work well with Conestoga? I'm using Mozaik software Pat. I know what you mean with hiring and training. I was hoping to get an experienced person that could hit the ground running. I've had great success so far in hiring.

6/9/16       #9: Too much work? ...
Roby Bass

Website: http://finebassfinishes.com

Hello, I use Conestoga for outsourcing doors and drawers. I have outsourced faceframes from them before also. I had no problems with sizing and quality was great. We also use Mozaik with cnc.

6/9/16       #10: Too much work? ...
Bill

Raise prices.

6/10/16       #11: Too much work? ...
cabmaker

Bucket brigade manufacturing will allow you to blow through a LOT of work in very short time with minimal training.

Instead of one person doing six processes for building a door have six people each doing one. One guy chops. One guy copes & sticks. One guy paints the glue. One guy clamps and mops the glue. If the glue mopper can't keep up with the clamper have the chopper help out at this end.

If you only have three people available then sometimes the chopper will have to have four doors ready for cope before the party starts.

You end up with five sets of eyes on every problem and (by lowering the volume of water in the lake) soon learn exactly where the tree stumps live. You don't spend any time training. It is all just doing.

What you have organically accomplished is to lower the batch size to one. Each guy does ONE thing at a time.

Try this for a batch of ten doors. It will all fall apart immediately but you will see exactly where the conflict or crash lives. Tune this part up and then tune the next part up. After about three or four of these campaigns your crew will start to notice that it is fun (imagine a bunch of old women gabbing while they sew quilts). It is a social event and very competitively paced.

It will only take a couple of successes like this to get your guys behind the program.

6/10/16       #12: Too much work? ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

Man this is why I love the Woodweb. I like the one, Raise Prices. It doesn't immediately help but it is spot on. And yes, with 5 guys and I outsource doors and drawers, it seems I should dedicate tasks to one person. Have one guy build face frames, one guy assemble boxes or two. Don't let boxes stack up but move them immediately to the finish side and don't let them pile up out of the booth but move to final prep. I wish I could get this from theory to reality. So is it correct to (having three guys in production and two in finish, and the two finish guys are fully capable of building), specialize tasks instead of have the three in production do multiple tasks?

6/10/16       #13: Too much work? ...
Larry

Raising prices: If you are getting more than a third of your bids, you are probably leaving money behind. Specializing is almost always more productive. I'd never let several different people run the bander, one as primary and one as backup. Any handling, movement, or measuring, does not add value, reduce or eliminate it. Sell what you can make the most money at. Once setup for frameless, you can produce several times the cabinets per man.

6/11/16       #14: Too much work? ...
cabinetmaker

Walk the shop when empty and walk it when in production. Take notes

Is it organized and efficient in it's self ? Be honest, don't throw in the thoughts of "I could or would do this......." Make the necessary adjustments for the efficiency of the work flowing in and out.

Get the office in order and produce clear and concise drawings.

Labor pool, make damn sure assemblers have everything they have @ hand and they are not pulling off assembly every couple minutes to look for anything or items for the assemblies.

Yes, there is a lot that can be done over 2 shifts, but I caution quality and rework needs to be kept an eye on, so it needs to be headed up by quality staff

6/12/16       #15: Too much work? ...
Harold Pomeroy

When I have had too much work, I have concentrated on doing the most profitable work, and raising prices. Doing all the work faster would require investing in capability to do less profitable work, in order to get all the available jobs. Reinvesting in plant and people will help to see you through the inevitable economic downturns.

Turning up the volume with double shifts creates management and logistical burdens that you might not be ready to handle. For example, who will coordinate the work across a 17 hour day? Which day workers will suddenly become second shift workers, or will the second shift be new?

What kind of work do you want? Looking at your web site, I couldn't see what market niche you are aiming for, or who exactly is running the company. I photo of the leadership and shop, and a statement of where you have been and what you want to do, would be helpful.

6/14/16       #16: Too much work? ...
ron bergley  Member

Website: http://www.qualitycustominteriors.com

Bottom line is you need to run the numbers for different scenarios. No one on this forum can give you an answer to increasing your crew size without knowing your cash position, how stable your load is etc. One thing you can do in the short run is raise your prices to slow the volume down and make more money on each job increasing your cash flow. Just don't go overboard on it or you may be branded the "expensive guy".

Ron


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)