We build a cabinet that has end panels mitered to faceframes. The box itself is either made out of pre-finished maple plywood or if the cabinet is paint grade out of raw plywood.
We need to come up with a better way to affix to the end panel to the cabinet box.
We currently juxtapose the faceframe to the box however meets the condition we need to see on the inside. What we struggle with is how to shim and affix the end panel, particularly to prefinished plywood.
The distance that needs to be shimmed varies depending on the situation. Our current strategy is to produce shims as necessary then affix them to the box. If the box is prefinished plywood we first abrade the plywood with a hand held belt sander so that there is something for the titebond yellow glue to get purchase to.
I am thinking that it might be better to use a panel adhesive that comes out of a caulk gun. The adhesive being pliable could perhaps act as the shim as well as the glue mechanism. Adhesive that comes out of a caulk tube is pliable so we would only need to hold the panel square and to position until the glue set up.
If we could get an adhesive that would stick to the prefinished plywood we would also no longer need to do the scratch pattern with the belt sander.
Does anybody have a better idea for how to join the end panel to the prefinished plywood panel?
Any suggestions for what kind of glue would be mooshable enough to act as a shim? (something relatively non-toxic).
Are there any delivery mechanisms for applying the thick glue that wouldn't involve a lot of squeezing by hand on a caulk gun?
Not sure how well it would act as a shim, but recently I glued two prefinished pieces together using gorilla glue construction adhesive and was surprised how well it held. The shop I work at usually uses one sided prefinished for cabinet boxes so we don't come across this issue too often.
I am hoping to get some kind of cushioning effect from the glue as well as adhesion.
What put me onto this idea was how plywood subfloors are bonded to floor joists. The glue provides some adhesion but mostly it is the mechanical fasteners (nails or screws) that do the heavy lifting. The bead of mastic itself mooshes into the low spots where the lumber isn't perfectly straight. In this case it acts as a gasket to absorb discrepancies and minimize squeaks.
I was hoping that the mooshable element of the glue would help bridge distance between plywood box and interior face of end panel.
Yeah I see what you mean. I've done the shim in the past like you do. I've also just lined up the mitre on the face frame as close as possible to the outer edge of the cabinet side. Both ways are kind of a pain.
We apply the frame to the endpanel then send it for finishing. The UV box is sized to have a 1/32 or smaller gap to the end panel.
Our box has a 3/4 back that rabbets in. Before the back is installed we can countersink 1 1/4 screws thru thecrabbet into the end panel.
Just curious...why the miter connection from frame to panel?? Seems like one more place to open and separate later and much more work. I also screw my panels from the inside of the box, but run my ff 3/4 long of the box and put a small 1/8 radius on the back side of the ff and the front of the applied panel. Looks pretty nice and pretty fast easy to do.
The reason we miter the corners is that it produces a joint that makes the segue from exactly at the corner. This helps minimize any wood movement from telegraphing through the paint.
Depending on the application we do use small rabbet joints from time to time. The exposed edge of rabbet is no more than 1/8 inch thick. This much change up in material can get masked by the brush strokes in the paint. The final coat on all of our work is brush finished.
Curious now as to how well this approach will perform in acting as it's own shim.
What put me onto this shim idea was how the stone countertop people install their work. When two pieces of stone are seamed together they first drop down a bed of butyl caulk and then put four dollops of bondo in the corner.
The bondo sets up quick and keeps the stone from settling. The caulk cures as it would normally. They only have to hold the pieces in alignment long enough for the bondo to set up.
Think for a second about the scientific method. First you make the hypothesis then you test it.
The validity of the test would have a lot to do with how the hypothesis is framed. How you interpret the result would define what is or is not legitimate to consider in subsequent study. The results of subsequent study would therefore always corroborate the initial fundamental assumptions.
If, for example, you ask the question: "Should elected officials be able to grope women who work for them" everybody can agree that this would be wrong in every instance.
If you reframe the question, "Should Donald Trump be allowed to grope women who work for him" the answer will be that this is just "locker room talk."
Just a story about PL Premium's tenacity.
First off, I should say that it has somehow took on the name "Pooky" in our shop and the installers and GC's have joined in with that too. So much so that it has turned into a verb. "Just pooky it in there and it won't move."
Years ago we put a large bookcase into a large house. We "pooky'd" 2x blocks to the floor in the corners of the toeboxes instead of screwing them down because of radiant floor heat. 5 years later the new owner of the house wants a different unit built and installed. We go to remove the old unit and have to pry up those 2x blocks. They came up alright, but only by taking substantial chunks of the solid maple floor with them!
I like Matt's idea of screwing through the line boring holes. We screw all our finished panels and fillers from the inside of the box like others using #6 or #8 wood screws. The biggest reason for doing this is in case you have to refinish any of these pieces because of damage caused by the homeowner or if an end panel checks because the sun is shining on it through a window or something, It is easy to send a guy, pop a few screws out and bring the piece back to be touched up.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.