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1/1/18       
Jeff Palmer Member

Ok, I am new to the forum. I have been looking on other forums for information, but they seem to be populated by weekend warriors and hobbyists. My delima is this, I am at the point of expanding a little with my shop. I have some mediocre shapers and a double drum grizzly sander i am using to make cabinet doors for my projects and other shops. My question is this - should I invest in a bettter wide belt sander or a couple of new shapers. Need some professional opinions on what would be most helpful.

1/1/18       #2: woodworking equipment ...
Scott

That is a tough question, basically your shapers and your sander are weekend warrior poor quality machines. What uses do you have for your machines? Do you use your shapers more or your wide belt more. How many cabinet doors do you build or are planning on building? Ideally you need to buy better shapers and a better wide belt, but that of course is more$$$. Maybe out sourcing your doors is the way to go, I have no idea where your located, but there are a lot of suppliers that have cheap great quality doors. Just my two cents, but wish you the best.

1/2/18       #3: woodworking equipment ...
Mike Fuson

It’s all according to how you want your business to grow and what you want to spend your time doing. How many employees do you have, what you want to specialize in. If you want to build doors then bigger shapers and widebelt would be the answer. But if you want to build and put out kitchens and don’t really want to build the doors then outsourcing is the answer and put that money more toward other equipment. Also I think one needs to look at how ambitious you are, having a huge shop with a lot of employees is not for everyone, because of the stress that comes along with it. It could be the most fulfilling thing would be to stay small with less overhead and less stress.

1/2/18       #4: woodworking equipment ...
Jeff Palmer Member

Thanks for the responses, guys. I am a small shop in remote North Texas. All the door shops are slammed around here and I have started doing doors for other cabinet shops. I have some contacts and an opportunity to do a lot of that. I also have found a couple of great deals on wide belts for under 4k. I would need a phase converter for my shop, but that is another issue. The thing I was needing to figure out is which comes first, the shaper or the wide belt...

1/2/18       #5: woodworking equipment ...
Scott

I think I would go with the wide belt first, there are a lot of things you can do with the wide belt. You should be able to find a used phase converter for a fairly reasonable price. As for your shapers, you should be able to run them for a long time with only minor repairs. Shapers don't have a lot of moving parts, you may have to change the bearings, but with good bearings and if you look after them they will run for ever.
My other question is why are the door suppliers so busy? Is there a boom happening, is there a shortage of suppliers? Is this a short term thing? I am asking these questions because in my area, which is in Canada and is a total different market and economy it is impossible to build doors and compete with the big door suppliers. I only build doors if they are a special design or if I need to match existing or for some odd reason that a schedule doesn't work with the supplier, which isn't very often.

1/2/18       #6: woodworking equipment ...
Jeff Palmer Member

Scott,

Thanks for the opinions. We were just saying that even the smallest 1 hp shaper we have is working just fine for it's purpose. I am looking at a single head speedsander 37" with a 10 hp dust collector. Now I have to see if I can come up with the 4500 it will take to make it work. I found a SCMI 43" 3 head for 2k, but I think it would be a lot to power 45 hp from a single-phase panel. My real delima is if i can reduce my time finish sanding with a ROS after the wide belt. The drum just is leaving some nasty divots.

As far as work around here, yes, Texas is booming pretty well. The bigger money is in kitchens, so most shops are building cabinets and outsourcing doors. I have a friend who is a lumber rep and said most of his clients are driving a couple hours to pick up doors they aren't really happy with.

1/2/18       #7: woodworking equipment ...
JeffD

A good wide belt sander is invaluable, they just save so much sanding time. If you get a decent one you can minimize, or even eliminate your ROS sanding. For doors I flatten with 120 grit and then a final finish pass at 180 grit and then there's minimal sanding required. I see a lot of factory doors however just go to finer grits and leave the crossgrain scratches. I'm not comfortable doing it, but this is what your competition is likely doing.

Then having a couple good shapers will also help. If you can find a couple used industrial machines in good condition they'll save you time from having to sand the profiles. They'll also be able to remove more material faster.

good luck,
JeffD

1/3/18       #8: woodworking equipment ...
rich c.

With such a positive outlook on current and future work, why wait? Get both and start making more money, sooner! Maybe look at a door machine if the outlook allows it.

1/3/18       #9: woodworking equipment ...
Jeff Palmer Member

rich, While I appreciate your encouragement, funds are not overflowing as yet... although, I do see your point. I think I will go ahead with the sander for now (and the 10 hp DC that comes with it) and pick up some better shapers as I come across a couple of good deals. I just missed a 3 hp grizzly with a power feed for 675. Kicking myself on that.

1/3/18       #10: woodworking equipment ...
Mike Fuson

Jeff, I’ve been building my own doors for about three years now. In my opinion you can’t go wrong with a 3hp grizzly or shop fox shaper, I prefer Shop fox because they have a much better fence system. I bought two of them along with 1/4 hp 3 wheel feeder for sticking. Plenty enough power in those machines and feeder for doing stiles and rails. For raising panels get at least a 5hp, bigger would be better. If you could run on to some weaver shapers that would be even better. I use grizzlys industrial cutters and they are good.

1/5/18       #11: woodworking equipment ...
keith farr

Hi Jeff Im in north texas and have a 25" x75" Ramco wide belt that I would let go If you are interested( have two bigger machines now. I ran it for years on a phase generater until I move my shop and got three phase . Its a mid 70's era machine and very heayduty Email me with your phone number if you would like to see it.


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