We’ve been in business 20 years and have made thousands and thousands of slab veneer doors. Up until this last couple years we always used classic/armor core (1/2” plywood center with 1/8” mdf bands on each side of ply below the veneer). We did this mostly because it is perceived to be a better product than an mdf or PB core and educating a client can be a long and often times a losing battle. And it was more readily available. In 2021 the plycore products became such an issue with warp age and poor quality we switched over to a PB core for all our rift sawn white oak slab veneer jobs.

We have a fairly new General Contractor client that we did a few jobs before this with the PB core product and there were no issues.

On the latest job with this client the homeowner is refusing to pay for the cabinets because all of the rift white oak used was PB core. We did not interact with the client at all. Everything went through the GC. And we are paid in full by the GC. The homeowner “doesn’t want an education on particle board”.

I personally have seen PB handle moisture better than the plycore products- in fact vastly superior moisture performance. It is vastly for flat- my primary concern when doing slab veneer jobs.

My GC and the client are now headed to court.

As professionals what are your opinions on PB being used for veneer?

Thanks in advance-

Your client is the GC
That said, his client isn't qualified to determine suitability of a product unless this was specifically discussed with the GC, and subsequently conveyed to you.
Also...where is all this theoretical moisture coming from that could damage the doors or fronts?
I use veneer core ply for the cases and install on 4 inch levelers
If water rises above the 4 inch level the cabinet doors are the least of their problems
The GC should educate their customer
Great news if you've been paid...

Get your lawyer up to speed. If the GC looses, he'll come after you. I'm not a fan of edge banding PB, and if I did use it, I would put a 2 ply veneer on the faces to prevent telegraphing.

PB core venir.
1.5 mill solid wood banding .

No problems

Thank you all for your responses, please keep them coming.

I’m not sure how they would come after me. Their own (GC’s) house was the previous house we built with the exact same product and it had been delivered, installed by them and in use for 9 months before this was delivered. Furthermore they had bought 40 sheets of this product from me and have requested it be used on their next project after this troubled one since it hasn’t been used yet. All in writing. That seems pretty air tight to me that they knew what they were getting and were fine with it. I had ZERO interaction with the homeowner.

The most expensive cabinetry I see each year is all particle board import from Europe that’s runs high six figures per job for the cabinetry. It’s AWI accepted for custom level and premium level doors and carcasses as far as I understand. We all have our preferences but it is widely used, accepted and lasts for decades within our industry at the highest levels both residentially and commercially.

Twenty plus years of pressing veneers on largely particle core panels. I far prefer it to ply, mdf for stability and adhesion. No problems banding to industrial PC.

How did the homeowner suddenly come to the revelation so late in the game (after install) that the doors were PB core? Seems odd that the GC wouldnt have a spec sheet far in advance of the client rejecting after installation (not that I would imagine that detail even being called out to the customer typically)?

Your quality and warranty is intact not that that would sooth an ornery client trying to dispute charges after the fact.

Logic doesn't apply to our legal system.

Rich, this is an honest GC. They sent me a letter today stating in no way do they hold me responsible. That our product was exactly what they were expecting and met all their quality standards. That this was a teaching moment to better vet and communicate with their clients and that enjoy working with my business and look forward to in the future.

Good folks who aren’t planning to pass the buck.

How many square feet is this job? Could you and the GC split the costs and run the new door panels in the homeowner's choice of core material? It may cost you time and money but much less than what the court fiasco will cost the GC. You'd be the here and everyone could move on.

FM, very happy for you. But until the customer and the GC make this all go away, I'd still loose a little sleep. Just me and my experience with lawyers. I lost sleep for 2 years with one deal until it met the time limit for legal action.

This may be a little off topic, but how did the end client even find out what the core material of the doors was? I am picturing a slab door with all 4 edges edge banded. I have been in the custom residential world for over 30 years and have never once had a client question the material used after delivery. I have had clients over the years ask about specific materials during the design phase and also when they were learning about our company.

My favorite story was the guy that bought a bunch of pre-made cabinets for his cabin from the local home store. He took delivery of the products which were shipped in boxes/packaging that like anything else had materials and warnings listed on the outside of the packaging. He returned all of it because of the formaldehyde warnings, came to us and ordered all his cabinetry which we had to source all formaldehyde free and "green" products. I didn't think too much about it until we got to the angled cabinet in his bathroom which was really close to the toilet and he didn't want any doors on it. I thought it was an odd place for that cabinet and even more so that he just wanted open shelves vs a door to hide typical bathroom items/supplies. His response was that the location of the angled end of the cabinet along with the open shelving was the perfect place for his ash tray while he was doing his business.

Open and shut most cabinets in the world are particle board, doesn't matter what someone else thinks with that said, Ikea spend million and million in court you need another case similar that Ikea or the same situation to throw the case out of court.
Also last I checked there is no standard in cabinetmaking, it's the wild west on construction
Josh has a good point whether right or wrong redoing doors would be an easy fix.
Just did extra work because I said yes I could do the extra work didn't say could do it for free, sucked it up did extra work charges for free did not want to go to court you lose always in court even if you win
But I feel for the GC

I have offered “to be a part of the solution” if I can help.

Doesn’t sound like this is the only issue, was just the last straw between the strained relations.

There were a few carcasses as well - master closet cabinets for example- which was the tip off to the client. It looked first rate. Would perform first rate. But….

Bottom line is I had no contact whatsoever with the client. I had delivered the same product twice in a row to this GC before this- actually their own home and they knew the product inside and out. And they were happy with it. And we have future orders for the exact same product with them and they and I have had the discussions with those future clients about why we use industrial high density PB core in this instance.

So just for $hits and giggles.. what was in the in the closet system that tipped the homeowner off to particle board?

I understand, and am happy, that you are not being held obligated to this oversight but it would undoubtedly be very valuable information to the rest of us as to how this whole thing unraveled? What in the closet system set the customer off? Where was the oversight in communicating to the customer that changes could be made to the cabinet spec at any point in time by the GC without customer approval? Things like that?

I have zero doubt you likely shipped the product you were paid to supply and would stand by your warranty but my question is what was the confluence of events that brought this all to this culmination? Shitty customer is likely high on the table, but there's got to be more than that. How did they find out about the PB core? Etc?