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Subject: Re: What software to use?

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Message Thread:

What software to use?

11/21/14       
Jack  Member

Hi all,

At our shop we use 2D Autocad then a CAM program called 'Genio' for our Morbidelli 3615 CNC.

I think moving to 3D CAD would be a good move but there are a number of concerns that make me think otherwise too, like -

What software should we go to, Solidworks, Inventor, Top solid...

Can we get the data we need for the CNC out of the software?

Can we produce detailed drawings for the shop?

Any feed back would be much appreciated!

11/21/14       #2: What software to use? ...
Richard

Hi jack,

There have been a number of discussions about this subject and I am sure you will get some response!

Just to get the ball rolling, what kind of products are you making? This is a key factor in what is the right software for you.

Also what type of files does Genio accept? Will it read DXF files or do you need G-code ready to go?

Thanks

Richard

11/22/14       #3: What software to use? ...
Pat Gilbert

Since you are already using Auto Cad, just use it in 3d. In conjunction with Smartlister. Definetly going to be your cheapest option.

Look at Derek's comments on Top Solid in this forum, quite damning.

SW has an add on for going to CNC that someone is peddling covertly on this forum may be good?

I also like Derek's conclusion to do the stuff in 3d that needs to be done in 3d and do the rest through CV or similiar.

11/22/14       #4: What software to use? ...
Mark

We're on the other side of Derek's experience...Topsolid has been great.

Don't rely on some other shop's success or failure...put in the time yourself, research carefully, to find what software is best suited for you.

11/23/14       #5: What software to use? ...
Jack  Member

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

Richard - We will take on pretty much any job but right now I'd say the bulk of our work is in booth seat carcass's, bars and cabinets. We are a custom shop and no two jobs are the same. Genio is based on Autocad 2008 OEM so it will open DWG and DXF.

Pat - Autocad 3D is definitely an option but could you tell me more about Smartlister? I have heard its name in various places on the forum but I can't find much about it online.

Mark - Top solid looks pretty appealing but the mixed reviews do make me cautious. Plus we are based in England and the support seems none existent here.

The more I think about it autocad 3D seems to be the strongest option at the moment

11/23/14       #6: What software to use? ...
Pat Gilbert

Smartlister is a program that allows you to stretch or shrink solids. IOW you can select a cabinet and stretch or shrink all of the parts at once.

It will output the parts separately as a dxf for cnc purposes.

It will also export a cut list.

The below link you buy an add on that allows you to put in holes for assembly of the cabinet or hardware.

You might try this link and talk to Jim Falk to see what the current status of Smartlister .

http://progressivewoodworks.com/

11/24/14       #7: What software to use? ...
Frank D. Jimenez  Member

Website: http://www.cabinetpro.com

Hi Jack,

Here is a list of some guidelines I've posted before that you may want to use in your search for software. I hope they are of help to you.....

1. Call the software company for an online demo, making sure they understand you want to see how their program fits your needs.
2. Ask questions that are important to YOU, not the salesperson.
3. Take the salesperson out of his comfort zone and ask SPECIFIC questions on YOUR methods of design, pricing, construction, or CNC operations. It cannot be over-emphasized for you to be prepared to ask in-depth questions and ask the Software Representative to demonstrate the making of cabinets or other items YOU make.
4. Do not put too much importance on references....generally they are handpicked and will always give a good review.
5. How easy is it to edit cabinets, furniture, and/or components and change various aspects of those items?
6. Make sure your questions are answered by SHOWING you how your issue is resolved. DO NOT be satisfied with a verbal response. Verbal responses do not show how the software operates.
7. You are guaranteed to require technical support. What is the charge for technical support? How does the company provide technical support? Is there a charge per incident? Are there yearly fees?
8. How does the company handle computer crashes? Are there fees involved if your computer crashes, if you lose a key, etc?
9. How are you expected to learn the software? Written documentation? Video tutorials? Classes to attend? Onsite instruction? What costs are involved?
10. Know what your needs are before talking to a salesperson. Do you need design capabilities? Shop Drawings? Bidding? Cutlists? Door Reports? Face frame or Frameless? CNC support?
11. How is the software protected? If keys or dongles are used, how much will it cost if they are broken or lost? (You are virtually guaranteed to lose or break keys!)
12 How are reports customized? Ask to see a report according to YOUR expectations.
13. Have a pretty one-of-a-kind custom cabinet in mind, and ask the sales person to show how it would be built according to your specifications.
14. If you are inquiring about a CNC version, ask TO SEE how the software handles the generation of CNC code when changes occur, such as when a new batch of material with a slightly different thickness is applied to the job, or when edgebanding changes, It's pretty common to receive a new batch of say, prefinished maple with a thickness different from the last batch you received. How are insets, dados, and depths of cut handled in this situation? If you change edgebanding, does the location of machining change as well? These are just a couple of examples of the kind of questions to ask.
15. If you are inquiring about a CNC version, how are drawer guide holes, hinge plate holes, and other hardware machining handled? BE SPECIFIC.
16. Ask to have the program machine at least one part according to how you would machine that part.
17. Although graphics are nice, DO NOT be dazzled by great graphics thinking that the manufacturing end is just as nice! The manufacturing end will be your bread and butter unless you are a designer only. Make sure it is quick, efficient, accurate, and relatively straightforward.
18. How is hardware, accessories, and pricing handled? How do YOU price out your jobs? Ask the salesman to demonstrate pricing according to your method of pricing.
19. Do not be overly concerned if the software is not particularly easy. As long as the sales person can demonstrate to you the quickness and efficiency of the software, you will be fine. You will have reason to learn the software if you know it will function according to YOUR NEEDS. Ease of use of a software program like this is usually inversely proportional to its capabilities. As long as you have good technical support and a good training program (see #7 and #9 above), you will do well with learning the software.

If these things cannot be shown to you quickly by someone who is WELL-VERSED in the software you are contemplating, then you can rest assured that it will take you much longer to accomplish the task when you have the software on your computer.

On the other hand, if these things CAN be SHOWN to you quickly by the saleperson, then you will probably be happy with the software. Know that there is no software that will do ALL that you want.....but the software you finally decide upon should do ALL that you NEED, and the MAJORITY of what you WANT.

11/24/14       #8: What software to use? ...
Pat Gilbert

Jack

You can call Dave Wishengrad about particulars, After 2 PM PST.

805-404-2142

11/26/14       #9: What software to use? ...
Jack  Member

Hi Pat,

Thanks, I've sent Dave an e-mail for now as I'm still getting to grips with 3D autocad in general and I don't want to try to run before I can walk.

Just a couple of questions,

Any best practices / tips for drawing in 3d for woodworking?

Also, does the smart software require a certain version of autocad? I use 64bit 2013.

11/26/14       #10: What software to use? ...
Pat Gilbert

Jack

Dave has some videos of how to use Autocad in 3d.

If you private email me I will try to put them in drop box.

Until you do a real job you won't be really learning as you won't have to make it work.

There is a learning curve, as there is with any software. Not as bad as Microvellum, harder than Solidworks. IOW don't expect to know it in a few weeks.

I depend heavily on layers, I dimension in paperspace not model space which works fine for 2d drawings but not for 3d drawings.

I use an older version of Autocad that Dave got me a deal on, 2007. I don't think Smartlister will run on 2013. But there is a solution called longbow.

http://www.longbowsoftware.com/

6/17/15       #11: What software to use? ...
David Bryan  Member

Website: kcdsoftware.com

Jack, I work for KCD Software. KCD Commander produces nested G-code for your CNC router, and can be researched at kcdsoftware.com. We don't charge for tech support, and work with our customers and their machine techs to get set up.

11/25/15       #12: What software to use? ...
Irina Chalaya Member

Website: http://prodboard.eu

Hi!
If you are looking for a software for kitchen cabinet design, you can try Online 3D kitchen Constructor, maybe it will help you with your business in the shop.


View higher quality, full size image (1006 X 615)

Online 3D kitchen constructor

 

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