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light weight MDF spoil board causing problem?

9/16/15       
Derek S.

For the first time, we have brought in some light weight MDF to use as our spoil board material. We are using this on a KOMO VR510 , single zone, flat bed router with a 40hp Traivaini vacuum. We received an error message that basically indicated there was a hole in our vacuum system, which there is not. It would not allow us to continue, so we threw the new panel down onto the old one, and have been running it that way.

Is it possible that the light weight MDF is so porous, the KOMO thinks the vacuum system has a hole?

9/16/15       #2: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Scott

I have had the same results with LDF i would suggest to switch back to MDF quickly.

9/16/15       #3: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Mike

Derek,
You are correct. If you want to use, LDF, I suggest starting with 1.5" thick. That will work until is thins too much and becomes more porous than at thicker dimensions. My opinion is, unless you have a lot of it, toss it in the dumpster, or make something out of it. Some guys really need the stuff based on their machine, but with a Komo and Travaini, you might just stick to regular MDF.

9/16/15       #4: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Derek S.

Interesting. Who would have thought you can have too much vacuum. We still lose parts from time to time, seems like a software change would allow us to maximize the benefits of 40hp and LDF.

Thanks for the feedback.

9/16/15       #5: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Stuart

Benefits?
There are no benefits using ldf.
I can only think of benefits when using mdf.
ldf is just a bad idea all round.

9/16/15       #6: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Derek S.

I assume that others are also using tactics such as onion skinning for parts under a specific square footage in order to avoid part loss. Would I not be able to decrease the required square footage for onion skinning if I had more suction? Afterall, onion skinning takes time. Or, would I not be able to decrease the loss of parts without changing my onion skinning setup? Isn't zero percent part loss the ultimate goal? Has everyone else achieved this and nobody bothered to tell me?

What are the other drawbacks to LDF? It's lighter and easier to handle, that seems like a positive.

9/16/15       #7: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Mike

I think we covered why LDF is not good. Tactics? Onion skin small parts, obviously, choose proper lead in places on the part, and order of which parts get cut from first to last. If you are willing to take the time to do that with logic, you will lose close to zero parts.

9/17/15       #8: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Snaglpuss

Covered how?
Just people saying it's no good and a bad idea.
Specifics?

9/17/15       #9: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Mike

Covered in that it is too porous in standard thicknesses. At 1.5" thick it is hard to find and expensive. I know, I used to source it at a previous company. At best, the parts held as well as MDF using a liquid ring pump, but as it thinned from surfacing, parts would begin to move even after banding the edges to minimize vacuum flow.

If you aren't sure, buy some yourself and give it a go.

9/17/15       #10: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Snaglpuss

Have been using 3/4 Lt.Weight with a 40hp pump for years.
Don't have anything moving unless the surface is extremely worn and munged up.
The only drawback I could see is it costs more than regular mdf or particle board, but the low number of sheets used makes that kind of a non-issue.

9/30/15       #11: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Evan Member

Website: http://www.near-west.com

The problems with LDF are partly related to its dimensional instability. It can gain or lose significant thickness with minor humidity changes throughout the day. This occurs with MDF as well but the higher resin content decreases the change somewhat.

While a rotary vane vacuum is capable of achieving a high maximum pressure, it falls off quickly once a few pieces have been cut through. The higher density spoilboard helps slow the volume of air therefore maintaining a higher hold down pressure.

My CNC uses a regenerative blower which supposedly can maintain a higher vacuum at a increased flow volume, so it works fine with LDF. In fact my machine seems to hold better with LDF (why I'm not sure). Since I started onion skinning anything under 2 square feet, I've hardly lost any parts.

10/1/15       #12: light weight MDF spoil board causin ...
Larry

I've got a KOMO 510 and a 40hp Quincy screw. Tried the LDF didn't see any advantages. We run 3/4" MDF Put a coat of finish on the edges and run it until its too thin to use. There seems to be a minimum penetration into the spoil board necessary to get a really clean bottom edge cut. I suspect it has to do with the dulling of the bit on the very bottom corners. So you have another trade-off, cut deeper or change bits more often. We have our software set to onion skin below a certain area. A lot less than 2 sq. ft. Long skinny parts are worse. I installed a large vacuum gage on the 4" line to the pump. The operator can see at a glance if it falls below 15". That seems to be the magic # for us.


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