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Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pigmented Lacquer?

12/10/15       
John Member

I'm interested in anyone's experience with ML Campbell's Aqualente Pigmented Lacquer. It has a viscosity of 35 - 45 sec through a #4 Ford cup which will work well with my gravity feed HVLP conversion guns, and it is KCMA rated which should make it a good product for use on a bathroom cabinets. But I'm interested to hear anyone's opinion whose actually used it. Liked it, hated it, words of advise or caution, alternative products you liked better and why. Any alternatives have to be WB, because I'm not set up to handle solvents. Thanks.

John

12/11/15       #2: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Joe Member

I am only set up to do waterborne also. I started with ML Campbell's Aqualente and still use it because their supplier is local.

The pigmented Lacquer has been fine, but I hate the Stain blocking primer. Once it is mixed and thinned to the proper viscosity, it does a very good job, but it is a royal pain to mix once it has set for even a very short period of time even after thinning. I have broken stir sticks trying to get the caked material off the bottom of the can. The ML Campbell reps have suggested using a drill with an attachment for mixing it, but that really causes a lot of micro bubbling.

I have used Val Spar's Zenith products. Their primer is much better for thinning and mixing. The pigmented lacquer is as good as ML Campbell's, but their supplier are not local.

I wouldn't count ML Campbell out just because of the primer until you try it though.

12/11/15       #3: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
John Member

Thanks Joe. That's really good to know about their primer. I'm not sure I can even buy Valspar products, although I've wished I could several times as it looks like they have several great products.

John

12/14/15       #4: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

I've used the pigmented (and clear) Agualente since it came out, and ML Campbell's prior WB products (Polystar/Ultrastar) before that. It's my go-to product for pigmented, way better than the old stuff. I have no problems with the primer. Yeah, it's thick, but sometimes you want that for good build/scratch filling. Durability seems pretty good, though I suspect it's probably a notch below solvent-based CV.

12/14/15       #5: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
John Member

THanks for the info. Pat. I just checked on the Agualente Stain Blocking Primer PIS and the viscosity is 40 - 50 sec through Ford #4 cup. That should be the sweet spot for my 1.8 mm gravity feed HVLP gun, without thinning. Or am I missing something, since I've never used it?

John

12/14/15       #6: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

1.8 tip should work with thinning. If not, go to a 2.0.

Cheers,
Pat

12/14/15       #7: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Joe Member

Hi John,

I have never been able to get the viscosity to 40-50 through a Ford cup right out of the can. Your probably going to see it much higher right out of the can. You will need to thin it just to get it to 40-50.

I have had to thin all ML Campbell products to get them to the viscosity they recommend. Changing the tip helps some.

I have used CAT CPR guns with 3M's PPS. Never a gravity gun. I now use a CAT AAA pump. All required thinning to get to the correct viscosity.

12/14/15       #8: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

Joe,
What tip are you using on your AAA? I have the same rig and use a 309 or 311. I don't spray the primer with the AAA. I use a turbine HVLP gun with a 2.0 tip for that.

Thanks,
Pat

12/14/15       #9: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
John Member

Thanks Joe. They list 40 - 50 seconds at 77 F. Maybe it's been colder when you've used it, or maybe it's not really 40 - 50. I've seen that on some other products listed at 45 seconds and I measured 60+. I've been thinking about buying an air assisted HVLP gun; this might be the project that justifies buying it.

John

12/14/15       #10: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Joe Member

I'm in southeast Virginia. I heat/cool the spray booth to 74 year round. I'm using the 409F(best) and 411F(ok). The F tip is just for waterborne and has a pre-atomizer in the tip. Helps but, I have to thin the Primer to about 45 and the pigmented/clear to 35-37 to get a good flow and to atomize better. Also have to increase the air to the tip. More waste, but works better.

12/14/15       #11: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
John Member

Thanks for all your help Joe. Looks like I'll probably need to get that air assisted gun I've been thinking about.

John

12/15/15       #12: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pdub

I might be showing my ignorance here, but isn't a CAT CPR gun with 3M PPS a gravity system? A cup gun is a gravity gun, right?
I have that same setup, (along with the Bobcat AAA) and I'd hate to think how many people I've told the wrong info to!

12/15/15       #13: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Joe Member

Pdub

My CPR gun is not a gravity feed. The cup is on the bottom and I use the PPS. I wish I had gone with the gravity feed, but I was steered to my set up by the local rep. It works very good, but the cup does get in the way at times.

I also use the CAT AAA with the bobcat. I rarely use the CPR anymore. Most for something that doesn't require more than on cup of finish.

12/15/15       #14: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

Pdub,
Gravity means the cup is on top of the gun.
The other kind is siphon feed.

Pat

12/15/15       #15: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pdub

Gotcha. Didn't know they made a PPS for a "bottom cup" gun. Heck, I didn't even know they made bottom cup guns any more!
I hear you on using the AAA more than the CPR. With the AAA, I feel like it's hard to lay down a bad finish. It's just annoying when you need to spray 1 piece and have to mix up enough product to fill the hoses/ pump and then clean the whole mess out vs.
Mix 16 oz. in the PPS and throw it away!

12/16/15       #16: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
al

How much you guys paying per gallon of primer? Gallon tinted topcoat? Is it true gallon or less?

12/16/15       #17: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

$48 for primer, $62 for tinted. Full gallons.

12/17/15       #18: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
alex whitefield

I enjoyed using pigmented Aqualente. I found the booth temp was very important. Don't shoot It cold or it will turn out poorly. I had a hard time matching mid and dark tone colors. They matched them in clear paint--which did not cover well and ended up need more coats of paint. I switched to PPGs Breakthrough. Really good product. Does not dry as fast but if sprayed right can have a nice finish. It is indoor and outdoor so would work great in a bathroom.

1/3/16       #19: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Daniel Shafner  Member

Durability is "a notch" below that of real conversation vanish or catalyzed lacquer? Um, no. The difference in durability of a waterborne system to a catalyzed solvent system is light years apart. Still. After years of so-called next generation waterbornes the differences in durability haven't been bridged or even broached. It's still all hype. Scratch the waterborne with your fingernail after it's one month of full cure and see and feel for yourself.

And what about reversability? Waterborne finishes come off in a gooey mess.

Those are just two criteria to consider. But that romanticized notion of "a notch below" is fiction and wishful thinking.

1/3/16       #20: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Pat

Daniel,
I tried the fingernail test. Nothing happened. What should one expect to see? As for reversability and the gooey mess, are you talking about using a chemical stripper? Or sanding? Never tried a stripper on it, but I have sanded a fully cured finish a few times with no problem.

I realize "notch" is a somewhat vague measurement, but "light years"? I've only been doing this for a dozen years, so I haven't achieved true Curmudgeon status yet. I have however used WB during all those years and have witnessed a big improvement over that time.

Solvent-based products have their own set of issues, including pot/shelf life, mil thickness limits, blushing, mixing issues, nasty, explosive fumes... I could go on if you like.

Cheers,
Pat

1/3/16       #21: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Daniel Shafner  Member

I would only be talking about chemical finish removal, to sand off a finish is a destructive attack on the substrate as well as inefficient.

Mil thickness? Valspar Zenith has to be under 6 dry mils. Sherwin-Williams Kem Aqua has to be less than 5 dry mils.

There are pluses and minuses to every finish type. As finishers we have to prioritize those pluses and minuses, and that means first recignizing them and acknowledging them for what they are.

Yes, if you're talking about durability and holdout, light years isn't the hyperbole that it sounds like to you.

Your cost-benefit analysis of what you do is your mileage. And even if there is an appreciable consensus of finishers who share your same good experiences with coalescing finish systems there are still plenty of folks and factories who have studied them, weighed them for all their worth, and still elect to use solvent systems. The overwhelming majority of furniture manufacturers have yet to switch, both those few who remain in America, and those many who now manufacture overseas.

2/3/18       #22: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Charles Member

A suggestion for mixing the primer with heavy solids.

We purchased a HarborFreight air-driven paint mixer (about $130).

We use this for MLCampbell's MagnaClaw Primer. This product also has a lot of solids that we could never completely mix with a stir stick. We shake the gallon cans for about 5 minutes, then turn the can over and shake for another 5 minutes. (Yes, we know the container sits in the shaker sideways. It may be overkill, but it keeps the boss happy!) When we check the bottom of the gallon there are no solids on the bottom.

We also use this when we add flow enhancer to our topcoat when needed. The topcoat gallon only contains about 120 ounces (that leaves room for our distributor to add color tint) so there is some room to add the flow enhancer. Again we shake the container for about 10 minutes.

Why 10 minutes? That was a quick bit of trial and error. We guessed at 10, found that the results were great, and left it at that. While the gallon is shaking, we are doing something else anyway. Besides, we were probably spending that time anyway with the stir stick, but not getting good results. Now the product is mixed very well with a consistent method.

2/19/24       #23: Anyone use ML Campbell Aqualente Pi ...
Jeff Tomlinson

Website: N/A

*** WARNING ***
ML Campbell Wood Finishing Systems by Sherwin Williams are JUNK!!!
I have painted bikes, cars, boats, furniture, houses, interiors, exteriors and many more substrates using all types of paints for the past 50 years.

I was told by some professional painters, that ML Campbell’s wood painting system was ideal for painting wooden cabinets.
What a HUGE MISTAKE to listen to them! Here is my experience with this horrible paint system by products and issues.

Primer:
Applications
The primer is very difficult to work with in that you CAN NOT touch it or get anything on it before you shoot the Magnaklear Pre-Catalyzed Conversion Coating over the top because the primer attracts dirt and is virtually impossible to remove any mark(s). You have re-shoot the primer to cover the dirt or marks otherwise they will bleed through. Also, you must spray the substrate at least two times because if you do not any underlining defects or colors will bleed through after you shoot Magnaklear.

Clean up
Totally sucks the Primer does not stay wet long enough to easily wipe off. You must keep the surface that you are cleaning wet with Lacquer Thinner otherwise the primer dries so quickly that you cannot remove it.

Magnaklear:
Contaminated Product
I purchased eight cans at nearly $80 a-gallon thinking that I was buying the best painting system for wood projects. I had to buy the Materials from a specialized hardware store that required a business account to make a purchase. Five out of the eight can were contaminated with small black specks. I thought that the debris might have been airborne in the spray tent; however, I noticed that on several occasions that a dark particle would fly out of the tip of my spray gun when applying the Magnaklear.

To prevent such issues, I thoroughly cleaned the gun several times with lacquer thinner prior to using it. The black 1/32nd sized particles could have never come from my gun since I never used shot black paint through it. I opened up previously used cans trying to determine the source of the debris and noticed that there were several small particles in the bottom of the can. I couldn’t believe it! How could ML Campbell’s manufacturing process allow contaminates into the batch at $80 a can. In 50 years of painting I have never seen this.

I contacted the local distributer and told them what was happening and he said, they had never seen that before—standard response. I took two of the contaminated cans to him so he could see the issue. He did not know what to do. Nothing positive ever happened after bring this to their attention.
Given that I had already applied two cans to the cabinets, I couldn’t go back and re-sand and re-prime and repaint all of them. Doing so would have taken 20 hours and hundreds of dollars in purchasing more paint, sandpaper and other materials. The only logical solution was to use three filters together to prevent any further particles from being sprayed out of my gun.
See attached photos

Easily Stains
My wife was making a red cake and during the process she opened several cabinet doors with her hands not thinking anything of it. The red cake food coloring stained the Magnaklear finish! I tried using Dawn hand soap, toothpaste as an abrasive to remove it, but it didn’t work. I also used Acetone and Lacquer Thinner to see if that would pull out the red color, but it didn’t. Keep in mind this paint job had only been on for two months so they still looked new. Finally, out of desperation I used liquid bleach and applied it four or five times with a microfiber clothe to bleed out the color. After, about an hour of setting on the surface most but not all of the red came out. What was interesting, wife got the same red coloring on our oil-based walls and the red came right out with Dawn soap.

Brittle
The Magnaklear is extremely brittle and chips very easily and is impossible to repair after it has been applied and dried. I had to re-sand many cabinets and start over to fix all the bad areas. I tried to remove a couple of small drips by using my fingernail. The drips came off as a chip and broke. This product does not have any flexibility.

Yellowing
If you end up using this crap you better account for the “Yellowing Effect” the product has will alter or change the original color. I was not aware of the yellowing until after I sprayed it and the product had dried! I was so pissed I have never had a “Clear Coat” change the base color as bad as this terrible product. One other warning you better make sure you apply the exact amount of Magnaklear on each surface because if you do not you WILL see a color difference when placing two side-by-side if they have not been sprayed exactly the same.

Touching Up
Good luck if you chip, scratch or scrap the surface after you have finished a job. YOU CAN NOT touchup or repair any of these issues the primer and top coat are impossible to blend over a damaged area, so you have to redo the entire area to blend it back in. If the finished surface gets dirty you CAN NOT rub the surface too hard because it will buff the topcoat and turn shiny, which will cause it to look glossy unlike the rest of the area!

Surface preparation
Before I applied any of the ML Campbell material, I degreasing the surface to prevent any grease from getting on the bare wood. I sanded all the surfaces down to the wood to minimize any potential bonding issues. I also wiped the entire surfaces with Acetone, then I lightly used rubbing alcohol to pull out any grime, water or gunk. I completed this two-month process and did everything in my power to make the finish project was perfect.

I contacted Sherwin Williams after I had fished all the work to take accountability for their mistakes. Their Regional Manager reached out me after I sent an email to their corporate office and he referred me back to the local distributer. I contacted them and provided the saved filters and cans for evidence. I had to follow up with them three times over several weeks for updates rather than him calling me. Great customer service!

The local distributer told me “basically I just wanted this problem to go away” because “Sherwin Williams is the largest paint manufacture in the world and they are not going to do anything about this complaint”.
Awesome right! You pay top dollar for a product that is defective and have to deal with all the application issues yet they screw you over!
Final Update

Two months after the project was finished several locations have split and started to crack! If all this evidence does not scary or prevent you from using this horrible and expensive product then I wish you the best of luck you will need it as well as a lot of patients. See attached photos.


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