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stain mixing

2/19/16       
Dave

i have a millworker doing about 100k of work at my jobsite and for budget and time reasons we were gonna do a few of the add ons ourselves. it was a long process of them getting the right color that the client liked so I asked him for the recipe/formula of the stain mix so we could match it with our own woodwork. after we completed the finish it didn't match at all. he now states that "every finisher should know you need to add a reducer to the stain based on how youre applying it.". the stain was a blend of 3 Mohawk penetrating wiping stains. what are your thoughts on that? i am not a professional wood finisher but have never used a reducer and it doesn't come to mind to ask when using a wiping wood stain.

2/19/16       #2: stain mixing ...
Robert Member

Is it on Maple...maybe they meant a conditioner.
The type of wood and how its sanded etc... has a big influence on how the color comes out. Got some pictures you could share.

2/19/16       #3: stain mixing ...
denny

Well...I made stains for years. If he was matching something in the field, and getting client approval (adjusting the color a few times), I am not sure how he would be able to develop a repeatable "formula". The real question is...where is the stain.?
"You" ALWAYS make 2x-3x as much as you need.....especially considering he knew you would need it.!
Stain is cheap, labor is expensive.....he did not have one drop left.?

2/19/16       #4: stain mixing ...
nick

I'm sorry to say...what every finisher learns (usually the hard way...like yourself) is to have an approved sample handy when staining and to check it often against what your staining while your staining.
If you're asking whose fault it is now that you have the wrong color? the answer is always; everybody involved. If you're asking whose libel? in my experience, it the person who did the finishing.

2/19/16       #5: stain mixing ...
rich c.

Two people working from the same can of penetrating wiping stain, can get two different final colors. How wet you keep it when applying, how fast you wipe it off, how large of area you work, etc. As Robert mentioned, preparation and what grit sand paper you use makes a difference too. Not to mention different boards from different trees, and different sheets of plywood as well.

2/20/16       #6: stain mixing ...
Alessio

As a finisher, in the past I've made a stain to match a requested colour on oak for example, but for whatever reason, when all the parts were ready for finishing they are aldready darker than my control sample. At this point you can reduce your stain mixture, and through shading/toning work back up to your control sample. Be careful to use the right reducer, the solvent must evaporate slowly enough to let the stain dry, or else you will have problems when you spray your lacquer

2/20/16       #7: stain mixing ...
Alan  Member

As a finisher, one always has to be able to make adjustments on the fly. Many times I have matched a stain sample, only to have the job come in and have the wood be a slightly different color (more red, tan etc.), making the stain look a little different from the control sample. One has to make an adjustment sometimes changing the viscosity of the stain (adding reducer/retarder), possibly changing up the sanding schedule (lower/higher grit), adding more clear base to the stain to keep it from giving more grain bite, or even changing the way the stain is applied. A good finisher knows how to make these adjustments and keep the job moving. I understand wanting to save some time and money by doing the finishing yourself. No offence intended, but perhaps this may be one of those cases where it would have been better to let the professional finisher perform his craft that he has honed over the years? I could not build a marvelous piece of furniture, even though I have seen it done many times, and I know how to run a table saw and a router, etc. I know my limitations. I would let the master craftsman who has spent his life building furniture do that for me. Just my opinion, anyway.

2/20/16       #8: stain mixing ...
Pat

It's fairly common to reduce stain to tone down the intensity of the color. If used, the amount of reducer in the mix is a key part of the recipe. He should have given it to you. However, all of the other advice about application methods, timing, wiping, etc. are also true, and especially the need to match against a control sample. That's on you. It's a painful lesson that most of us have probably experienced.

2/22/16       #9: stain mixing ...
Dave

Thanks everyone for the responses. I know in the end its our responsibility to ensure an accurate match. I was more wondering about his common response that every good finisher knows youll need to add a reducer, but I asked him for his formula on the exact same product, and the client was ok with a slight variation of theirs vs ours but he reduced it so much 10 reducer to 1 stain that it wasn't even close. oh well should have done a sample to be approved.

2/24/16       #10: stain mixing ...
Scott

It is not common practice to reduce stain. It is done when needed for a desired color only. If that was part of the formula than he should have told you but you also should of had a sample board from him to check your stain against.


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