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Bizarre Marks around hadle holes8/22
Just received a call from our on site finisher regarding these "rings" around the drilled hardware holes. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Any ideas on cause?
Thank you, Adam
Are the doors new? Were knobs installed, then removed? If so, looks like UV damage on the doors themselves.
Looks like some kind of oil or liquid that got under the finish via the holes.
thank you for the ideas guys! These are brand new doors that were originally outsourced. After we received them, they were drilled for hinges, sanded with pneumatic orbital sander, hung on the cabinets, hardware holes drilled. Been here 24 + years and have never seen this before, not even sure what steps to take to remedy.
With some of the crap hardware out there, I've noticed that threading the screws into the pulls can be difficult, sometimes to the point that it seems like the holes are not threaded and the screws are tapping the threads! Is it possible that the installer used oil or WD-40 to help the screws along?
Another possibility is that the homeowner used some kind of cleaning agent that seeped into the screw holes and under the finish.
we are somewhat thinking along the same lines. We are not far enough along in the process for the hardware to cause this. I went out to the shop floor and asked each person involved with this set of doors if they had used any lubricant on the drill bit while drilling the hardware holes. No one admitted to doing anything like that, so I am stumped.
Not exactly sure I understand the situation. Are these doors something that have been hung for a while and you removed the handles to find this underneath. Or did you send these doors out and by the time they were ready to be hung the spots around the drilled holes had formed.
What is the finish on the door? Stain and CV?
My initial thought was water had gotten under the hardware and siphoned into the hole which is raw wood. The the water was absorbed into the open grain and discolored the wood under the finish.
Could be the doors under the sink or just from washing the doors with a sponge that was more wet than damp.
Was the hardware installed?
Did you bleach those doors with a 2 part wood bleach?
I'd say the same guy that hung those doors did it. Man that's a horrible door alignment!
Are they using a guide or template to drill the doors?
We finish the door first. Then, we use a jig that includes a piece of plexiglass with holes for the drill bit locations. Occasionally I have seen some discoloration similar to this. It seems to go away by simply wiping off with a clean rag.
Since it is easily removed (from finished doors), we have not tried to figure out why. And, it only happens once in a while. I wonder if something similar is happening to the unfinished wood that will not simply "wipe away" such as heat/slight burning. Or, maybe there is some dirt/oil on the template.
Again, Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas. To recap:
- Cabinets were built & delivered to job site raw. (holes in doors & drawers were drilled at shop prior to delivery)
- Cabinets were installed on site by another vendor
-Cabinets were finished on site by another vendor
-After stained finish was completed on site we were notified of these "rings" around a good number of the drilled holes
-No hardware has been installed on these cabinets as of yet
- I personally inspected the drilling jig that was used - no oil, burn marks, or other evidence that stood out
- my only "guess" at this point is that somehow heat is involved. But even so, you would think that the amount of heat it would take to do that would very noticeable during the drilling process.
- Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.
id say its the finishers fault.
Because the hardware holes were drilled before finishing, I'm guessing that excess stain is being absorbed around the holes. This would be easy to replicate and test. The solution is to drill for hardware after finishing.
Do they have the same marks on the back of the doors?
Also, what does it look like around the hinge holes?
spent the morning doing in house tests and confirmed my suspicion that heat was the main culprit. It appears the heat from the drill bit "opens" the grain around the hole allowing it to absorb more stain.
There does appear to be more than 1 way to resolve this. See the attached pictures. The board that has 6 holes, I went over the 3 holes that do not have a ring with an orbital sander very briefly after drilling.
The board with 8 holes does not have any additional sanding done to it, but I did "water pop" the board so that the entire board had the similar amount of open grain.
It appears that the on site finisher just went straight ahead with applying stain to the cabinets without any sort of prep work that you would normally see when maple is involved.
FYI, I did the exact same testing to poplar boards this morning, and at no time were the "rings" present when stain was added.
I have been with my company for 24+ years, and have never seen this before. Still learning I guess.
Looks like I was right!!!!