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Lacqure finish cracking over paint

8/24/16       
Justin Member

we have been having issues recently at work with are finishing and I'm just trying to figure out whats happening.

The doors are MDF shaker doors. The normal finishing process includes 2 coats of lacquer sealer if edges or core of mdf is exposed, 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of a catalyzed paint top coat and one coat of clear lacquer on top.

normally there isn't any problems with this process but for the past week we had a lot of doors ruined by the cracking. normally happens between the last coat of paint and the lacquer. any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. PS dont mind the dark spots in the picture, dust on the lenses.

we recently installed a much larger compressor and the heat created is pushed into the spray room for the winter when we cant heat it fast enough but the spray room temp currently hovers around 25-32C so just wondering is that is having some effect as well.


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8/24/16       #2: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

Could you tell us what products are you using?
The catalyze lacquer,is it pre cat or post cat?
How about the sealer/primer?
Cracking/wrinkling is usually a sign of using non compatible product

8/24/16       #3: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

Also like to add
Too thick of coating can crack
If it doesn't dry right

8/24/16       #4: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Justin Member

all products are ML Campbell, Both sealer and lacquer is pre-cat and the primer is post-cat.

The pump does get switched over on occasion to different finishes but it hasn't been switched in a week or more, so there shouldn't be any issue of cross contamination if it wasn't cleaned good.

We do have a new finisher down in the spray room so its possible that the finish is getting applied to heavy but there doesn't seem to be any major runs like you would normally come across with thick coats aside from the odd one here and there.

8/24/16       #6: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

Ok
Usually post cat and precat shouldn't be mix but if it's just the primer it should work ok
What about too much catalyst?
Who is mixing it?
Make sure you use the proper amount
what about drying time?
I'm asking because you mentioned that you have a new finisher
I use MLC all the time and I never had any problems with it

8/24/16       #7: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Justin Member

The more experienced worker is mixing the paints. I'll check and see how much of each they are mixing tomorrow. Post-cat Paint is drying fine, it's happening once pre-cat clear lacquer is applied over the dryied post-cat paint. It cracked before the lacquer was even close dry.

Would to heavy of a coat with to much heat (30C) in the spray room cause it to dry/flash off before the inner lacquer could dry because it's so thick?

Not sure on dry times off hand.

Used the same process for years and never had problems before but for some reason it is happening a lot lately.

8/24/16       #8: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
rich c.

You're doing yourself no favor with that last precat lacquer top coat. That stuff is not durable at all around a sink, dishwasher, or stove. My kitchen is a great indicator. It definitely needs a limited film thickness and can cold check very easily. My first guess is to just eliminate that last coat, but I also feel you are jumping all over the place with the finish schedule. Why not just use a better primer like Clawlock and skip the first lacquer sealer.

8/24/16       #9: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

Just
I usually do not put clear on top of paint
Unless I'm glazing
Are you sure its the clear that cracks?
Or the paint?
I would check with your finish tech guy and make sure he's doing the proper mixing
Heat and humidity can make a difference in drying time
So maybe allow a little extra time?
Good luck
Hope to you get your problems resolved
Also have you tried calling MLC customer support?

8/24/16       #10: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

I'm posting my replies too fast!!

I also second what Rich said
I would just use clawlock as my primer
and forget lacquer and go with CV as my top coat
And that's it
I try to keep my schedule simple

8/25/16       #11: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
JeffA

If you are seeing the crack when the last coat isn't even dry then it's because the previous coat isn't dry enough to coat. There is a window when you can put another coat over another especially when those last coats are all able to be the last coat. And I would also agree that there is way too much build. If you need to seal up the machined part of the door, then concentrate on those areas until you get them filled. You don't need as much product on the flat parts of the doors. Just my opinion.

8/25/16       #12: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Leo G

1st Coat of Clawlock.
Scuff hard, 220.
2nd Coat of Clawlock.
Scuff light, 320.
1st Coat Stealth
Scuff hard, 320
Final Coat Stealth.

Stealth thinning. 20oz Stealth, 2oz catalyst.

Mix together 3oz of Reducer with 2oz of Flow Enhancer #2 and use 4oz of that to thin the Stealth. (20% thinning).

8/25/16       #13: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Justin Member

I'm pretty sure its now narrowed down to the finisher just eye balling the amounts of catalyst and reducers which caused a batch of paint to be improperly mixed.

Its looking like the second mix of paint never had enough catalyst which caused the second half of the doors to take longer to dry. Once the first half was dried, a lacquer topcoat was applied to all the doors, meanwhile the second half was still uncured because of wrong mix, which caused the paint layer to crack up.

Thanks for all the input in narrowing the problem down.

8/25/16       #14: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Leo G

You can eyeball thinners. You can't eyeball catalyst.

8/25/16       #15: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Mastercabman

Eye balling!!!!!
Ha yes of course!!!!!!
always follow instructions!!!
Most MLC product is mix with 10%
Make sure you stick with the recipe!!!!!
Glad you got it sorted out

8/26/16       #16: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Brian Member

That's not a crack, it's a wrinkle, probably because you didn't allow enough dry time between coats or you have too much film build for the previous coat to through-cure before you re-coated.

8/26/16       #17: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
pmac

Not trying to be a wise guy, but save the doors, glaze the wrinkles and call it your "distressed finish"
Of course the problem would be if someone wanted that you'd have to accurately reproduce your mistake.

8/27/16       #18: Lacqure finish cracking over paint ...
Hen Bob Member

I 2nd LeoG. I use the same schedule exactly. Never have an Issue. Stealth is a great product


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