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Recommendations for Water Based Conversion Varnish for Restaurant Tabletops

5/1/18       
Matt Member

Website: http://www.hollerdesign.us

I have been on the search for a good WB finish for commercial tabletops for a while now. I like GF Eduro-Var but I was wondering if there are any cat or pre-cat WB CV that might be as good or better than the GF product. Has anybody compared Enduro-Var to KemAqua or other products for this application? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

5/1/18       #3: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
John Member

If you want really good durability on restaurant tables in a WB product I think you need to focus on 2K poly. I really like EnduroVar and it's been very durable where I've used it in residential applications, but I don't think it's going to hold up nearly as well as a post catalyzed product.

I've been interested in ChemCraft's Aqualux Post-Cat WB Clear 2K poly but haven't had the need yet. You might consider that product as you decide what to use. GF makes a WB Conversion Varnish, too, but I've heard some bad reports about how it (mis)behaves adding the catalyst.

John

5/1/18       #4: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Bart

GF makes a WB CV. Haven't used it. It uses a Euro style isocyanate based catalyst that's not my cup of tea.

5/1/18       #5: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
david zaret Member

i don't think i would use endurovar on a high-use table. it's a nice product, and beautiful, but i don't like the idea of using it for horizontal surfaces.

that said, i don't have a solid recommendation for you other than to follow john's lead and look at a 2K poly...

5/1/18       #6: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
david zaret Member

you know, i just remembered that i used enduro clear poly on a set of oak tables for a local coffee shop - abused 10 hours a day - and they are holding up incredibly well, after 5 years. it's tough stuff. something to consider....

5/2/18       #7: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Kris Member

Ive used the GF enduro Poly on some restaurant tables and a bar top as well, 4 years ago now, without any issues thus far.

I wanted something that would be easy to recoat on site when the time came to freshen things up because the bartop couldnt be easily removed.

I believe I did 4 coats on the table tops and 5 on the bartop if memory serves.

5/2/18       #8: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Terry Vanlaningham Member

Website: http://www.woodshoponshilling.com

I've used a lot of GF Conversion Varnish on table tops. Sprays very well. Extremely durable. Much more so than the Clear Poly in my opinion. It's like any finish with a catalyst. You have to be very particular in how you add the catalyst and how well your stir it. I think I'd give it a try if I were you.

5/2/18       #9: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
david zaret Member

terry, good info. how do you deal with mixing small volumes? if you have a small surface to shoot, how do you only mix what you need? thanks.

5/2/18       #10: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
rich c.

Earlier it was mentioned that a GF product has an isocyanate based catalyst. Please be aware of the health hazards of using the product.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/isocyanates/

5/3/18       #11: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
nick

Thank you Rich C. for a very informative post!

5/3/18       #12: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Terry Vanlaningham Member

Website: http://www.woodshoponshilling.com

I use a digital scale to weigh both the finish and the catalyst. It's not uncommon for me to mix a quart at a time, or even less. I stir with a mixer on a drill and pour very slowly. I then finish stirring with a stir stick and scrape the sides to make sure I've gotten the finish off the sides of the container. I'm going to contact Gerneral finishes and ask about the health risks but that's a very good point. I do use a respirator until the off spray settles but I need to kow if that's enough.

5/3/18       #13: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Bart

Terry you want to wear protection through all phases of mixing and spraying. Wear gloves/respirator when handling and mixing. Isocyanates are used in many types of products including catalysts for all types of finishes can be risky for skin and lung irritation etc... I developed an allergy over time to GF's old crosslinker which had an aziridine compound that didn't like me.

cheers and good health

5/3/18       #14: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
DannyB Member

Yeah, worse than that, by the time you can smell isocyanate, it's way way way too high a concentration, so it's hard to know when the respirator cartridge needs replacing.

Most auto shops (which spray a lot of the stuff) use supplied air respirators to avoid this issue safely.

I don't know if the 3m service life indicator cartridges will properly you show end of life for isocyanates.

On the plus side, because of how fast they dissipate in the air, it's usually mainly the bounce back spray you need to worry about (this is also why the catalysts usually have a very short shelf life once opened).

For example, studies show that brushing and rolling isocyanate-containing urethanes does not produce detectable levels of isocyanate in the breathing zone, though as someone said, you still need to protect your skin.

5/4/18       #15: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Adam

3m updated the user guide for their standard
respirator filters a few years ago.

The filters do block the iso's. Unfortunately as Danny mentioned you don't know when they stop working by smell.

3m says to use new filters each time you spray.

The iso problem is with spraying. It will also go thru your skin. In order to properly spray these finishes you effectively need to use hazmat kit: fresh air mask, perfect hooded tyvek suit, taped at the wrists.

Brushing/rolling is not a problem. There are plenty of other chemicals that will irritate your skin so protection is a must.

5/11/18       #16: Recommendations for Water Based Con ...
Wingate

Bona Traffic Commercial Duty floor finish. Incredibly tough, sprays well, forgiving, can be refinished on site. Pricey but worth it.


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