Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Ventless Booth

6/27/18       
Tom O Member

Website: http://stgermainscabinet.com

Greetings,

Is anyone using or considering a Ventless™ booth? I would like to hear about your experience, thanks.

http://www.ventless.ca

6/27/18       #2: Ventless Booth ...
Robb Parker  Member

Website: http://www.HeritageWoodwright.com

We wanted to and still do want to upgrade our booth. Tried to get specs and pricing from them and just never could get a response. Interested to see what you find out.

6/30/18       #3: Ventless Booth ...
chris

I have done a lot of research on it, and have spoke to this company as well as others. It's a very expensive option. A company who sells/installs this manufactures product did come to my shop and quote one out. It was 20k for a 8x10 exhaust wall

6/30/18       #4: Ventless Booth ...
Robb Parker  Member

Website: http://www.HeritageWoodwright.com

Ouch.

7/2/18       #5: Ventless Booth ...
Bill  Member

Website: canadianacabinets.com

I was was an early adopter, a believer, but still a sucker. Spent upwards of 20,000 for a bomb. Nothing arrived on time, ordered in early August for October delivery arrived mid November. We were supplying labor to set up but they arrived at end of shift each time rather than 9am as promised. Parts missing, wrong parts, wrong power requirement for controller, and on and on! We had a room built for it that Jean was in and measured etc. We did not get running til early in the new year and needed to set up a conventional booth as well to be able to produce. Fumes where overwhelming. tested safe but smells where so strong that my guys would not work in it. Many promises later and no joy. Finally the cost of disposal of the carbon was huge, and in Ontario at least you need a hazardous good license to dispose of this. Replacement carbon was over $2000. per time, and it seems that the carbon filters once they collect enough particles are a bomb awaiting a fuse. The fabrication was poor and the sheet metal was really thin. After 2 years of struggle we converted it to a conventional booth.
If you can get natural gas spend 10,000 on air make up. Happy to speak to anyone who is considering this. The concept has been around for years for table top booths and Jean has an idea but we became sick of being the Guinea pig. We where never actually able speak to anyone who had one running with great results. I should have known it was too good to be true. Cheers

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

WABARKER_VENTLESS.pdf

7/3/18       #6: Ventless Booth ...
cletus joness

very apprehensive about this , no device that i am aware of can detect when the carbon filters are failing other than your nose and then they should have been changed earlier, nice concept maybe for paint a face frame

i wonder if this is a fad like those plastic blow up spray booths, but imho if it would be a big market for these there would be somebody of consequence doing this in the states, i out of curiosity will check these out at the iwf,

good luck herb j.

7/4/18       #7: Ventless Booth ...
DannyB

These things are basically huge gas phase filters (with some amount of prefiltering).

I had a small 4ft x 4ft ventless booth with gas phase filters. I eventually just converted it to exhaust.

1. If they are carbon based (and most are),
the carbon is going to be pretty expensive over time, unless you have a really good bulk supplier.

2. They are adsorption, not absorption. That means the filter doesn't destroy the VOC, they bond to it. So the carbon in the filters are now the same type of waste you would find in a solvent recycler.

They also tend to smell over time, because again, it's not destroyed, just sitting there.

3. It is possible to detect when they are failing - use VOC sensors or particle sensors.

In the end, either they are sticking to the filters and not in the air, or they the filter is full and they are still in the air.

My dylos meter could tell very accurately whether the ventless booth filter was working.

Personally, i would not go this route. It is a mishmash of technology that doesn't actually work well together for this purpose right now.

Plus, if i was going to try to capture solvents and VOC (instead of exhaust them), i would find a way to capture some amount into a solvent recycler.

7/9/18       #8: Ventless Booth ...
Tom O Member

Thanks for the comments, I was kind of thinking that it sounded too good to be true. I also did not get much of a reply when I contacted the company.

6/3/22       #9: Ventless Booth ...
Will Mack

Website: http://www.cbbe.net

I was browsing and came across this thread and it was significantly different than our experience, and so I thought it would be beneficial to give another perspective - one that is admittedly more current.
We are located outside Atlanta, GA. We purchased 4 Ventless booths last year - a 37' long booth for painting and 3 for glue application - a 10', 14' and 17'.
We assembled all of them ourselves and found the quality of materials to be top notch. We took one of our guys who is reasonably skilled to head up the team that put them together. They went together reasonably well once we understood that some temporary framing needed to be built to support it while in the build mode.
Make sure you give yourself enough time to build and test them as this isn't a 1 or 2 day job.
Also be aware that the Ventless booths aren't 100% ventless - they require 10 - 20% air to be expelled in order to keep negative pressure in the booth.
The carbon filter system has been redesigned since the original posts, and work quite well and are easy to replace. The spent carbon goes straight into the dumpster.
Something that is critical, and I would suggest doing prior to purchase, is to talk to your local Fire Marshall and educate him on what you're doing because they probably haven't seen this before. We had a good experience with our FD, but we have a neighbor who put in 3 Ventless booths and got raked over the coals. Also having a sprinkler design prior to talking with the Fire Marshall could be very helpful.
We found Jean to be very responsive to questions and requests, and rarely went more than a few hours at the most for a return phone call if we didn't get him on the first call.
Bottom line is that we are pleased with the Ventless system. The quality of the airflow is good (as long as the filters are changed regularly), an air makeup unit isn't required and the building stays warm in winter, and our staff likes using them, particularly having a reduced VOC level on the returned air.
It's fair to say that we would buy them again.

6/16/22       #10: Ventless Booth ...
JEAN NAIM

Website: http://www.ventless.com

I appreciate your review. Just for clarification sake, the exhaust portion of the Ventless booth is factory set at 5% (not 10 or 20%), a tiny discharge needed to create a slight negative for air curtain to work effectively.
As far as fire department, the Ventless is designed to meet NFPA and building codes anywhere in North America as long as installed properly. In your "neighbour" case, the installation itself was the problem and not the booths. Three large booths were nested thru dropped ceiling tiles and as a result location was deemed very hazardous hence more scrutiny (oversized fire suppression system was ordered). However, in the end the Ventless booth design prevailed and all 3 Ventless booths are approved and running happily.

8/8/22       #11: Ventless Booth ...
Brian  Member

Website: http://www.pianoartisans.com

Happy Ventless User here as well!!
We are located in the PNW and Southern California and opted for the 20' dual motor booth and couldn't be more satisfied with the booth, and the more importantly the quality of our finishes.

First off, not to be redundant, but we agree with everything Will Mack said above.
- The system went together as expected, not easy, but Jean was always available if we had a question etc, so the install went rather smoothly.
- The quality of the Ventless booth and its components are top notch. We have two conventional booths from two different manufactures and there is no comparison
- The technology is fantastic, and with the freshly ordered sliding cartridge filters; changing the carbon will be as easy as possible. In fact the carbon change was my only complaint, in that it needed to be easier to replace the spent carbon. The new upgrade fixes this, can’t wait!
- Shipping was fast and the booth was packed very well, they did short change us a few screws and bolts, but Jean was right on it and had his team send what we lacked.
- Pre planning with your local gov. agency is paramount to avoid any unforeseen’s.
- The booth is not totally ventless but it is darn close, as we only have to have a small exterior door/window opened by a 1-2’ in order to achieve the static pressure need in the booth. You’ll know when you get it right. Once you understand the system, it is effortless.

Now on to other considerations.
For us, we had to contend with three issues, heating, space, and the finish quality. We were considering an air makeup style booth, but after learning that our area would need a 1.2million BTU system and the fact that we were on propane, plus the starting cost was over 80k-100k, we needed to start looking around.

We stumbled across Ventless, and like many others, the tech seemed to good to be true, but after a good conversation with Jean, it was clean that we really needed to learn more. After 1.5 weeks of thinking and analyzing the pros and the cons the Ventless vs. a conventional booth vs. and air makeup, we decided on the Ventless.

Our primary use for the booth is fine piano finishes, prep and sanding. We seem to do all the dirty jobs in the booth.

After nearly two years of use, we have compiled a short list of pros and cons.
Pros
- Stunning results. No dust and even heating in the spray zone, and viola! A near perfect finish. I’ve been finishing for nearly 20 years and have never had such an easy time achieving stellar results!
- Saves a huge amount of money on winter heating vs. standard booth(which you couldn’t even use in the winter) or the Air makeup booth. In fact as an added bonus, and since the booth recirculates most of the air, it tends to pull the heat down from the ceiling and brings it down to the working area, which is wonderful especially in the winter months. Most of the time our heater is only running 20% of the time, with the door cracked open in 0degree weather, and it was 72degrees at the working level. The inverse is true about the summer, our AC can run, and our working area never get above 80ish, which is fine in the peak of the summer.
- Quiet!! The booth itself is a pleasure to work in. We would say the ventless booth is less than half of the operating volume of the conventional booths. My team and I thank you! One more note, the exterior (outside of the building) noise of the ventless vs conventional is not even comparably, you don’t hear the ventless unless you’re literally on top of, vs our conventional booths you could hear from anywhere in the parking lot.
- The static pressure in the booth fully protects your finish from contaminates(dust, bugs, etc.) that could be floating around the air. Also since it has static pressure, you don’t feel the air moving past you, and the overspray simply disappears.
- The booth’s main filters are a cinch to change
- More $$$ savings; Since the booth absorbs the VOC vs exhaust it, you’re able to turn the booth off after 5-10 minutes off after a fresh coat and just passively ventilate(window open, with a door cracked somewhere else, gets the heavy remaining VOC off the floor.) Obviously you wouldn’t want to hang out in the spray area, but that’s normal.
- No cutting into the roof for install!! We side mounted our exhaust and since it is so small, you need only two 1’ diameter holes, not a 24” or 36” hole which causes a slew of issues when installing.
- Carbon loads up quickly with VOC, so when you run the booth, you’ll smell the VOC, but when the booth is off, you smell nothing.

Cons
- Initial cost, the system is not cheap, but far less than an air makeup booth. Furthermore the results you achieve with a dustless booth is far superior so that initial cost really isn’t an issue when you’re not have redo your hard work.
- Carbon loads up quickly with VOC, so when you run the booth, you’ll smell the VOC, but when the booth is off, you smell nothing. So needless to say, if your spraying solvent or waterborne, you must use a mask, but you should be always be using a mask, PERIOD. I personally use the battery powered 3m filtration.
- Old issue, but worth mentioning, changing the carbon would take us 4-5 hours, perhaps less with two men, but if you have to do in on your own it is not easy. The upgraded cartridge system will fix this!
- The cost of the carbon is high if you don’t buy in bulk. I ordered an 1,100 pound super sack which will last us 5 years, and I think the cost was $1,200ish, so $225/year is not a big deal considering that I save that in power usage vs an air makeup booth or conventional within the first weeks of use.
- Installation instructions could have been improved. Regardless, Jean was there when we needed.

All in all, we are so happy with our system and we highly recommend the Ventless booth.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations
    • SAMES North America Corporation
      Precision Spraying Solutions From Pumps To Complete Application Systems-Design and Manufacture of Process Equipment Including Airspray, Airmix, Airless, Rexson Dispense, Electrostatic and Powder Coat
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • TotalFinishingSUPPLIES.com
      Solutions and supplies from spray tips to spray booths for all your woodworking needs
    • Supergrit Abrasives
      Industrial Quality Abrasives Manufactured by Leading US and Foreign Companies

    Become a Sponsor today!