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Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FLAT & SMOOTH Over Time??

6/9/13       
Dave

What is the best way to keep an edge grain butcher block style top, any species, from feeling the swelling/shrinking at the seems? Does not matter how I finish, they still do it, no matter how much or what kind of finish I use. What am I doing wrong or is there a trick? I have tried raising the grain before running through the sander, I have let them sit for a time then sand, how do you do it?

6/10/13       #3: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

Is it the glue joint - the glue - that you feel raised as a bump? Or is it the actual pieces of wood that are moving against each other?

I will bet lunch that you used TB I, II, or III, and that it is the glue line you feel. Change over to a rigid glue line like powdered plastic resin - PPR - glue and the problem will go away.

If it is the wood thickness that is different, then you must have widely varying moisture content in the wood.

Or you could even have both problems.

We used to have the raised glue line problem often, even after waiting a week or more and then resanding. It vanished once we changed the glue. We never had a customer complaint that I heard, but I knew it was wrong.

6/10/13       #4: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
Dave

Thank you for your response and time. Yes, We use mostly TB2, sometimes TB3. And yes, it is the glue joint I feel. All the lumber is from the same kiln dried batch, all stored the same way in the same location. I do not have any other problems with wood movement out of the norm, this is it. Where do I find this powdered plastic resin - PPR - glue? And how is it applied? Must be water resistant too??

6/10/13       #5: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

Do a search here in Woodweb on PPR. There are even a couple of recent threads about it.

Some call it plastic resin glue. The brand I know of is Pro-Bond, as well as the folks in the link. It is water resistant - certainly suitable for countertops. It can be used for veneering, laminations, assembly, etc. Mix with water, and it will keep for several hours. It gives a rigid glue line so is also great for things like cold bent laminations.

The only drawback is that it needs 70 degrees or better.

Custom Pak Adhesives

6/16/13       #6: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
Charles Member

David,

My shop normally builds furniture and cabinetry, with some decorative veneer work as needed. I have used Pro-Glue in the past for veneer work and like the product.

That being said, my wife brought home a broken wood cutting board as a favor for one of her friends. It appears to be solid maple. It split completely along one of the glue lines, and is almost completely split along a second line. I will need to rip the second one to separate the pieces. The remainder of the glue lines look good.

I bought some fresh TBIII for the project but had not worked on the board yet. (Paying work comes first.) Then I read this thread about the raised glue line with TB products.

Now I am wondering if I should use Pro-Glue instead. One concern is food safety. Another is alignment during glue-up. (Although I would have that issue with any glue.) I thought of using biscuits, but don't think that is a good idea. The original joints don't use biscuits and I don't want to introduce any place for bacteria to hide.

Am I on the right track to use Pro-Glue?

Any clever ways to keep the pieces perfectly aligned during glue-up?

By the way, I could not find "Pro-Bond" at the website you posted. Maybe I didn't look in the right places?

Thanks!

6/17/13       #7: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

Pro-Bond is a brand name for ppr - powdered plastic resin. The folks at Custom-pak use the glue type as the name. Call or write, they will set you up just fine.

As for food safety, my take is that the glue, once cured is inert, and could be eaten without any harm. Not scientific, just common sense - like the finishes, once cured, non- toxic.

Alignment? Careful clamping. I would plan on sanding the level and present as new since it will be almost impossible to align perfectly.

Mark your joints somehow since this will come back to you once the other joints fail.

6/18/13       #8: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
Dave

Just got off the phone with a very helpful guy at Titebond. He explained it to me like this, and it made perfect sense as the little light bulb went off in my head as he spoke...The glue has water in it, about 10%, raises the wood around the glue as it dries, you sand everything flat, then if the wood goes back dow to 7% mc it SHRINKS around the glue leaving a slight glue ridge exposed at the joint. So if the lumber is above 9-10% mc, you glue, sand flat, ship the top to a kitchen where the wood goes back to 6-7%mc, boom, theres the little glue ridge exposed as the wood shrinks around the glue. He said if the lumber is down to 6-7%mc when you glue, you wont have a problem. So I just ordered moisture meter. Duhhh.....So simple. What are anybody elses though on this?

6/18/13       #9: Keeping Butcher Block Style Tops FL ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

No qualms with the Titebond tech - that all makes good sense.

What I notice is a raised glue line, most notable with TBIII. I delight in pointing this out in work my competitors supply, but have avoided it in our work by using PPR.

The glue line - the actual glue - raises and squeezes out of the joint. I have used a sharp card scraper to cut it off, and give it the organaleptic test - I put it in my mouth. It most definitely is glue and glue only. Once the joints are scraped flat again - or should I say excess glue removed - I can come back in a day or week or month, and the glue has squeezed out another bit. Cut it off and repeat....


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