Sawing and Drying

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Kiln Newbie

1/18/14       
JoeWoody Member

I have spend hours on the forum reading, so I apologize if this was discussed somewhere and I missed. Please just point me in the right direction.

We are a company that produces wood products for the restaurant and hospitality marketplace. Our wood source comes from working with local municipalities to obtain logs from their reforestation programs, so all our wood comes from trees that are already coming down. We use a number of local mills to have the logs milled and dried and this has been great.

One of the cities we work with cuts about 500,000.00 bd ft of useable timber a year (Cherry, Oak, Sycamore, Elm, Walnut, Locust). A central storage location is shared among a number of cities and a large quantity of wood goes to waste, being wood chipped for mulch or sold to landscape companies to be mulched.

We have been approached by the city as a partner to build a mill and kiln on the city property. We have the availability of a 50,000 city building that was used as the recycling center, but sits empty since they have contracted the recycling to a third party. The community is very green and has some of the first reatilers in the country running net zero energy locations.

Milling we have done and understand. We are wondering what options are for building a kiln/s? Since it is a revenue share with the city, and the concept needs to prove beneficial, we want to start small/medium in size and grow.
Are there hybrid kilns that are powered by electricity and solar power?
Can the entire kiln be off grid and run by alternative energy or is the power consumption to much?
Should the kiln be built outdoors, or is indoors inside the building better? We want to use the building for retail sales to the local communities, as well as storage for our use.
Is there an excel document or worksheet on the cost to build a kiln/cost to operate?
Finally, we would probably bring in a consultant to help design, build and get us started, are we better off working with a company like Nyle Systems or an individual?

Thanks in advance for the input. Joe

1/18/14       #2: Kiln Newbie ...
Tennessee Tim

Website: http://www.tsmfarms.com

Sounds like an interesting project. Gene would be a GREAT source of info on this large of a scale drying...I'm only familiar on small loads.....BUT from some of the reading I've done, a mix of solar sheds to pre-dry and a mid-large D/H final stage and sterilizing kiln would save alot of wait time over ADing.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love,
Tim

1/18/14       #3: Kiln Newbie ...
Gene Wengert-Wood Doc

Where are you located?

It is hard to mix solar and electric. The reason is that a solar kiln is good when the sun is shinning, but has tremendous heat loss at night. So, for a hybrid to work, you would need a solar collector and a kiln that is separated, so you can control heat losses. This is a lot of money to build a separate collector, but it is what is needed for being able to use electric power without wasting energy and money. Then add the electric system for when the sun is not shinning. Then, it is easy to conclude that adding solar costs a lot with little benefit, so just go 100% electric. To be efficient, use a heat pump, which will save over 50% of the energy compared to conventional.

It depends where you are located, but here in WI, we get zero drying from Nov to March with solar as the sun is low and sunlight is for only a few hours each day. So, you would be all electric for five months. Of course, it could be that there is no good solar site in your building except on the roof, which would be a lot of work to move lumber that high.

Do you want your business to be subject to the amount of sunlight? Probably risky indeed.

As a rough estimate, you need about 1 sq ft of collector for each 10 bf of lumber in the kiln. This will dry a load in 6 weeks of sunny weather. So, in WI we do well to get four loads a year.

1/19/14       #4: Kiln Newbie ...
Tennessee Tim

Website: http://www.tsmfarms.com

I think I got my words run together in my post.....I meant (seperate) solar kiln for speedier free drying and a D/H like nyle or other brand for sterilizing and final MC's.

Here's a link on a solar design in the COLD region...

Solar Kiln

1/22/14       #5: Kiln Newbie ...
Henco Viljoen

If you have production in mind, completely off the grid is not an option yet. The balance between expense to generate enough electricity and saving on your utilities bill pushes payback time up to 30+ years. To go traditional solar kiln only will probably fill a few football fields if you need to dry 500,000bd ft!

You probably read my thread on the Hybrid kiln I build in SA. Here we have quite an abundance of sunshine, which assist greatly in heating water, which I use as an energy store. The heat pump effective only have to heat the water from 49 deg C to 52, and at night, depending on how wet the timber is, only run 2-3 minutes on/ 3-5 minutes off cycle. Day time temperatures pushes the water temp as high as 56 Deg C during operation, and with efficient heating coils we reach water temp - 3 degrees on your DB temp.

My recommendation, don't go the DIY route (DIY could also mean Destroy It Yourself!!) ...find a reputable supplier that can guarantee results.

Your best local option is probably still Nyle DH kilns.

We are busy engineering our Hybrid kiln to be in kit form...build Africa tough!!

1/23/14       #6: Kiln Newbie ...
Steve McGuire

FWIW:

Such a deal. Go for it. What's to lose? But get an iron clad agreement of what is expected.

Having the kiln inside would reduce the cost of operation. At least it reduces wind chill factor and heat loss in the kiln. Nyle would probably jump at the chance to help and design and charge a lot of their expense off as PR.

If not Nyle then Ebac.

Two options on a "hybrid" I've considered:

Use solar power to just run the fans and charge deep cycle batteries for night use with an option of "going on grid" when sun light is an issue.

And of course use the wood waste from the sawing operation to generate heat in a boiler. Very common. They have a boiler design that uses green fuel too.

No idea about the cost effectiveness of the solar-fan option. The use of wood waste is very viable but some lead time might be needed to dry the fuel.

Either or both would be considered very green and saleable to a community that has green concerns.

Being on city property without real estate cost should make a huge difference in "profit" margins.


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