We have a Raimann gang rip with the Quick Fix arbor. The saw came with 300mm x 28 tooth blades and they seemed to do a fine job of cutting.
However, we were having trouble cutting narrow parts - the tail end of the board would get jerked upward after it left the last infeed roller and it was causing a terrible mess. Through the process of trying to minimize it, blades were looked at, and a 48 tooth ATB was recommended.
Turned out that what we really needed was a pressure shoe setup, and we've installed that and since no problems regardless of whether we're using the original or new blades.
However, the supplier recommended by Weinig (Raimann) is quite expensive. Not only are the blades 20-30% more than our other sources, but they charge DOUBLE to sharpen.
This led me to look for other reputable blade companies. I found what appears to be one, gave them the particulars, and they came back with 48 tooth TCG.
My question is, why is everyone recommending so many teeth for a rip application? BTW, we are making moulder blanks - no glue line quality necessary.
We are ripping mostly hardwood, 4/4 to 8/4. Occasionally (once a month?) 10/4 or 12/4. We are feeding at about 60 FPM.
If I were the cynical sort, I'd say the more teeth, the more it costs to service the blades. I have had more than one saw service man tell me he'll give me the blades if I have him service them.
You are right - a rough mill rip operation usually benefits from less teeth. More power to each tooth, larger gullets, etc. I would bet that whoever is selling you saws has no experience with your equipment.
I would let Weinig specify what they think would be best, then go to Leitz and a few other name brands to see what they would offer. Atlanta in August - IWF - will have all the saw makers there, so it will be a good place to further learn what you need.
There are also a few good saw companies listed here as sponsors on Woodweb. The honest ones will send you to another company if they can't help you with in the field experience.
The thing that threw me is that the first supplier mentioned was recommended by Weinig. It was almost as if Weinig didn't really know what to do and were deferring to this company. It happens to be a company we have dealt with off and on for 30 years (mostly with some specialty blades).
Regarding the cynicism, I understand. I have an uncle who loves to diss those that have their furnace "cleaned & tuned" by the same company that sells them oil... However, while the principle may give one pause, I believe that in the end any company will prove its worth (good or bad).
Being my own devil's advocate, while it seems lower tooth count makes sense in this application, resulting in lower cost new blades and sharpening, what about longevity? With more teeth, each one is doing less work, so the blades may last longer? That would result not only in less frequent sharpening, but less labor in changing collars, packaging, etc.
Then, too, is the amount of time I'm "wasting" even thinking about this. How far do you take anything? But a penny saved is a penny earned, and when you add up a pile of dollars saved it can make the difference between an OK year and a Good one, or make a Good one a Great one.
David - Yes one can analyze too far and get a bit lost in it. But I think your questions are valid and part of proper due diligence in making sure that this particular detail is examined and resolved to the best current conclusion.
That said, I can see your point, but have no answer. A good excuse to go to Atlanta and talk to some folks first hand.
My experience is with a Mureen Johnson gang rip. I heard about some saws that were about 15% thinner than what we had. Talked to them and they guaranteed that they would perform as well as the ones we were then using, or my money back (about $3,000). I ran the numbers and the payback would be within a year.
They did work fine and we saved a T/L of Poplar about every 14 months with those saws. It was just a small difference in thickness, but it really added up when you are yielding out a T/L a week. After the blades were paid for, it was 'free' money.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.