CNC Forum

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Surface?

9/10/20       
Engineer, Jr. Member

We are trying our hand at getting v-fold/miterfold solid surface parts to cut on our Morbidelli SCM router but not sure where to start with RPM and feed speeds. We are using an Amana RC-1102 90 v-groove bit with general purpose insert and our first attempts were rough. A new insert cuts better, but goes to junk within a few feet of starting. That and the lack of chips (just dust mostly), leads me to believe feedrate is too low. We are at 5000 mm/min (197 IPM) @ 18000 RPM.

I think we have to speed it up and have the horsies to do it but I'm not sure if we're where we're supposed to be to start. We're already feeding faster than recommended too according to Amana's charts.

Does anyone have experience with this and have a good recommendation?

9/10/20       #2: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Bob Member

We use 9000mm/min @ 16000 (same bit) in 3 passes.

9/10/20       #3: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Engineer, Jr. Member

Bob, thanks for the info. Curious if you tried single pass or went straight to three passes? My guess is that spreading out the load in three passes plus speeding up the feed rate will significantly reduce heat and bit destruction.

9/11/20       #4: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Quicktrim

I run a vortex integrated v groove on my Anderson CNC . I run a first pass at .4 in and a second pass at .095 leaving 5 thousandths to the spoilboard so that the vynal packing tape layer is still there for the miter fold.

The cuts are absolutely clean and perfect and the inserts last a long long time. I also miter fold MDF core venir for floating shelves, end panels etc. with the same bit but leave the last pass at about .2 - .25 inch on the 3/4 thick stuff.

I have yet to change an insert and have made a lot of tops with it.

Perhaps the stability of the integrated HSK tool is helping me out, but I have been thrilled with our quality and production.

I will get in the computer at the shop tomorrow and give you the spindle speed and feed rate I am using.

9/11/20       #6: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Chuck Hicks Member

Website: http://www.southeasttool.com

Here is the bit we carry for the Miter Folding

Part # SECS143IR


View higher quality, full size image (2110 X 1288)

9/11/20       #7: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Mark B Member

When we miterfold SS we hog out the bulk of the material with any tool possible just to save the tip on the V groove. As with any V bit the tip is pretty much just rubbing away material and wasting the tip and adjacent cutting edge on pre-passes is just eating that tip. Even just plowing 1/4" groove down the fold line leaving just a whisker of material at the tip would make a world of difference.

9/11/20       #8: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Quicktrim

What Mark said is spot on.

9/13/20       #9: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Mike

To all those who want to mitre fold with router that are currently looking for a machine, I would recommend looking at machines that have a saw. 9"-12" diameter will improve cut quality and speed over the insert router bits. I still use the router bit option when necessary, or if the cut angle is different from 90. Solid surface is pretty forgiving, but mitres on laminated or veneered material are tough to get a clean edge with a router bit. Many salesmen will claim that you can get the same results with an aggregate and a smaller V-groove saw, but I am still waiting to hear success stories of those who have tried that method.

9/14/20       #10: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Bill Blackmon  Member

Website: http://www.southernmachinesolutions.com

Further to Mark B's point about the tip of the miterfold bit pushing and not really cutting, the following technique would work well for some. You need a saw on your machine but the integrated saw on a lot of drill heads is enough.

Have the tip of the insert for the router bit ground, leaving a 3-4mm flat on the bottom edge. Have the tips of the saw blade ground to 45. Run the router bit first and blade second.

Tool life of the router bit is better since there is a small diameter at the bottom, cut quality in the bottom is good since the saw blade finishes it and reasonable dust collection is possible.

9/14/20       #11: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Mark B Member

The aggregate/saw option is great if your running a mile of these daily in which case I would imagine it would be the option the OP would be using. Not in any way shape or form is it a viable option for the volume we do.

9/16/20       #12: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Quicktrim

I have found that the geometry of the insert that I have is actually cutting as the angle at the tip is sharper than 45 degrees . And also for the increase in speed of assembly and sanding it's a no brainier for me. That being said, like most things it is not a silver bullet. When you have tops with a lot of inside corners the miter fold doesn't help you and requires clamping and glue up of corner blocks etc..


View higher quality, full size image (1546 X 3264)


View higher quality, full size image (1546 X 3264)


View higher quality, full size image (1546 X 3264)

9/25/20       #13: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Gary Balcom

QuickTrim,

Are you cutting through the miter? Or did you apply something to the other side of the sheet before running to hold it together?

9/28/20       #14: V-Groove Cutter on CNC for Solid Su ...
Quicktrim

Gary,

I am applying tape from Betterly to the back side centered on the cut pattern , then cutting through the ss to the adhesive layer of the tape but not through the tape.

  • Post a Response to this thread
  • notify me of responses to this topic
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)