Blind Panel Install

01/20/2014


From original questioner:

We are installing panels that act as a header board on top of some large case goods. They are plywood 12 tall skinned with a metal laminate. We cannot penetrate the face. Has anyone come up with a fast way of installing such an item? We have used Velcro on much smaller pieces and I wonder if some commercial Velcro would not get it done if we had enough surface coverage for grabbing strength. Any comments or ideas?

From contributor La


There is "permanent Velcro" made. Once it is together you can't pull it apart. The catch is how to attach the /Velcro to the panel. Also you have to laminate the panel both sides or the plywood will cup.

From contributor Sl


If you have room to move the panels up just 3/8" from their final installed location, it is simple to use a keyhole bit in a trim router to cut a keyhole in the back of the panel and hang on a pan head screw in the substrate. It's fast, inexpensive and very secure. Let me know if you need more details.

From contributor ja


Any reason Z clips will not work ? you can even pocket out the back of panel by depth of clip for a flush finish ?

From contributor sc


Use the extreme Velcro. Staple the strips to the panel and the mounting structure.
It has little micro ball and socket type stickies instead of hook & loop. Really strong, kinda "snaps" in place. Hard to pull apart if you need to reposition & can't get a grip around an edge of the panel.

From contributor Jo


I did not state the header board goes up against a ceiling so Z clips are not the best fit. I am going to try the extreme Velcro mostly because I like to try new stuff and it sounds very cool.

And this is at the other poster, I did not back balance the panels, I have been guilty of this in the past on smaller pieces that go over top of something else. Do you feel they still need a backer? I will certainly put one regardless just in case but I am curious what other do. Do you guys always use a backer???


From contributor ja


if it is a laquer finish we do spray the opposite side, with plam a backer sheet is needed

From contributor La


I agree with James Mc. Also the backer should be the same material and thickness as the face.

From contributor Jo


The face is a typical metallic laminate. We use a normal brown balancing sheet on the back. I dont always do it; I get in a hurry and try to convince myself the balancing sheet is not needed because it being secured to grounding when I know darned well it is. So 90% goes out with a brown back. I already circled around and put the backers on the 12 header pieces.

Changing back to the original topic, the extreme Velcro has an extreme price. We have about (30) of these header boards to install on our case goods. The header board goes right up and abuts the ceiling, then laps onto the face of the case goods and covers the top rail about 1-4 what depending on the flatness of the ceiling.

We install the case goods typical and then cleat the top of the case goods and cleat the ceiling. Sometimes we use a small knee wall if there is nothing in the ceiling for grounding. Either way we still need a blind way to fasten the panels and keep them tight to the ceiling. It would cost me about $750.00 to use the extreme Velcro and I do not have it in the project. Had I known in advance I probably could have added a line item. We will most likely end up using some type of cleat system. Im sure there will be labor involved but not $750.00 hopefully. I would love to try to use the Velcro if I could find a more reasonable source for it. I cannot pay full retail especially in the quantities I need. I can take it roll even if its too much I will use on other projects. I cannot find any or I can find it but do not have any experience with using it for this type of application. And I dont like to try new stuff like that. Rather someone else tell me they have had some type of success with another system.

Whenever we do blind fastening its a hassle and slow. We use the caulk grade epoxy also. Its nice and secure fast also but not cheap either. We use it all the time for securing iron spindles under wood rails and found that is works great on any wood to wood and stays in place. You just have to basically hold it there about (1) minute. Since we are up against the ceiling this will probably be our method of choice. I was hoping someone had a better way.

Thanks all for their feedback. I appreciate it.


From contributor sc


You will not need to run the extreme Velcro the full length of the panels. A few 3-4 inch strips along the top & bottom faces of an 8' panel as you describe will be sufficient.
From the for what it's worth dept: the brown backer will be fine in this application, I can't imagine using a metal laminate for backing. ($$$$) Enough of these type things in the field across the country in various environments with no problems.
If you go with the Velcro be sure to staple it to the material. The backer is not the best thing for adhesion and in time most adhesives of this type dry up & breakdown anyway, we're talking years here.

From contributor To


I've done something similar in the past where I put construction adhesive on the back of the panel and used standard Velcro as a " clamp "to hold the panel til the glue sets. If the panel is heavy you may need to help support it with a temporary ledger clamped to the case goods below it .

From contributor sc


While on the subject, here's another thing we've used other than Velcro when a panel needed inserted without any trim or screws, no gaps around the edges and no slots to adjust or slip fit, and, still must be removable to get to wiring. These magnets are powerful and more than enough to hold many things in place. We used a few to hold large sheets of artist painted MDF in the back of retail cabinets. But,, these too are pricy, and the cabinets were "extremely" pricey too. The designer/architect would not approve Velcro.


From contributor Sc


You might want to try these Keku push in fittings or a quick dowel. The down side to both of these is that you need to install them accurately.

http://www.hafele.com/us/en/external/blaetterkataloge/TCH_FC_2013/i
ndex.html?startpage=11.48

From contributor Al


Try the Hettich Multi-clip; they can be installed multiple ways and are compression fit, you would be able to tap the panel up a bit if you needed depending on the clip orientation

From contributor ma


You can use construction adhesive like a sort of contact adhesive. Here's the process: Bead on the construction adhesive, press the panels into place, then remove the panels and let them sit for a bit. This has disaster potential here; be careful. Once the adhesive firms up a bit, press the panels back into place. Done.

From contributor Ch


Ok, so here's a trick i recently learned on a job from a glass installer. Squirt a bunch of dime to quarter sized circles onto the back of your panel using adhesive caulk. I mean like 20 or 30 on a 16x50" panel. Press the panel onto the surface it's to be installed upon and HOLY CR$P....IT'S STUCK! Just a bit of pressing and wiggling is all it took. Try it on some scrap, you'll be astonished. I guess the circles act like mini suction cups. Crazy. After all these years and then I find this

From contributor Ji


I use what's called mushroom head fasteners, which sounds like the velcro described.

I get it from McMaster-Carr for a couple bucks a foot in 3/4" width. Incredibly strong, and graduated strengths. Use glue back and staple as well.