Contractor picked up a kitchen job of red oak cabinet doors from my shop yesterday about 4:00. The driver loaded them inside his quad cab pickup truck and said he was going home to park inside the garage. Before he told me that i warned him about the dangers of heat to cabinet doors and told him dont let these sit outside. It was about 90* yesterday. Get a call today about 4:00 and they say the door panels (3/4) have cracked. So i talk to the owner and start aking questions and tell him bring them back. Same guy who picked them up brings them back...every single door cracked at some of the glue joints at the ends of the panels. So i measure them with temp gun and they are about 110*. He says the guys staining them knew they were cracked this morning and they stained them all anyway. He also admits that he did not park inside the garage and that he parked in the driveway. So we all know it gets super hot inside a vehicle and that is how they cracked. My question is how would you handle this.
I have never had this problem.
My shop is climate controlled and their shop where they stained the doors is not.
From contributor Fa
Seems fairly simple to me. You charge him for new doors. If you are feeling super generous do them at a discount.
From contributor Ad
How "hot off the press" were these doors? If heat and humidity were a factor, I would expect the panel to expand and potentially cause the joints at the stile & rail to crack open. Were the glue joints given sufficient time to dry completely?
From contributor Ad
"every single door cracked at some of the glue joints at the ends of the panels."
What does this mean?
From contributor do
Took me about a week to make the doors. I always let panels set 24 hours before i run thru the planer. Then they get shaped and get profiles sanded the next day. Assembled doors set a day before being widebelt sanded and final sanded.
Been using this batch of glue for about 4 months. Titebond origional.
About 1-3 hairline cracks at glue joints at ends of panels.
From contributor do
Meeting went well this morning. I am remaking doors at customers cost. They understand. However because i am a nice guy and they are a good customer i will help them out with a percentage. A learning experience for them for sure.
Any other thoughts?
From contributor ri
Wrap them up in flexible sheet foam next time for insulation and no handling scratches for delivery.
From contributor Ad
Its still kind of weird. Do you use space balls? Pin the panel? Glue the panel?
I would think the panel would simply shrink and rattle in the groove. Its more like the panel was stuck and when it tried to shrink it split.
Maybe the space balls melted and bonded the edges of the panel to the stiles.
High temp cabinet doors need NASA high temp spaceballs!!!
From contributor Fa
I don't think it has anything to do with space balls/shrinkage/growth. It has to do with high temps releasing the glue just as it will set it. Had this happen once to me on a sample door left in the pickup.
From contributor do
Yes i use Spaceballs and no i dont pin or glue the panel lol and if you think the Spaceballs will melt at these kind of temps well....lol again.
My customer is a general contractor and it is a young company with young people who are not wood experts and they dont have much experience. Luckily they are reasonable and did not try to lie. They gained knowledge and so did I. I will make sure to mention this to my other customers as a reminder about proper storage and transportation.
I normally make my deliveries in the mornings and if i do a delivery in the heat i make sure the doors are covered with a couple sheets of cardboard and furniture pads and no longer than a very short drive.
These doors essentially baked in an oven.
From contributor Fa
That seems like overkill to the extreme in the other direction.
Only time ever had trouble was in the cab of a truck. Literally tens of thousands of doors in area where 100+ temps are fairly common. One door left in the cab of a truck. Doors are left in sun, in trailers, if doors are that fragile how are they going to handle being onsite for decades?
From contributor do
I dont know but iv got thousands and thousands of red oak doors out there and these are only ones i ever had this problem. And they sat in a cab and baked.
From contributor Fa
In a cab being the key words. Greenhouse effect. Can temps can reach crazy hot temps due to it. Not going to even come close unless it is extremely hot without that. I think your morning deal is overkill. I have seen plenty of wood products cup and twist though with PROLONGED direct exposure.
From contributor Ke
While The heat is responsible, it isn't the only part of the equation.
The HEAT alone doesn't cause the wood to shrink. It's that the really hot air is much more absorbent, so any moisture left in the wood escapes into the air, causing the wood to shrink.
Finishes alone won't stop the moisture from leaving, but some other plastic wrapping could help. You could heat the wood up to the same temp and have it wrapped where no moisture is lost as it cools, and there wouldn't be problem.
ALL wood movement is due to changes in moisture content.
If for some reason you have a bunch of doors sent out that end up cooking in a vehicle, rather than bringing them in and spreading them out to cool, it would be better to bring them into a cooler space, but bundle them in a plastic tarp that you seal up as tightly as you can so that they cool without exposure to the air. It will take longer but not as long as making and finishing new ones.
From contributor Da
Titebond glues all loose strength in heat. TBIII looses 70% or so at 180 degrees! TBII and Original are less so, but that kind of heat will affect the glue, perhaps more than the wood. I have seen the heat failure penetrate almost all the way through a 1-1/2" panel. The heated side failed, the other did not.
From contributor do
Is there another type of yellow glue that is better than the Titebond Origional?
I used Wilsonart for a little while but it seemed to be brittle.
I think i might get a roll of 1/8" packing foam for the more expensive doors and just charge a little more for deilivery.
I deal mostly with cabinet shops and i have talked with several owners all who have had a similar issue like this glue joint failure from heat over the years.
