Architectural Woodworking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber?

4/7/15       
mitch

Website: http://subercustomshutters.com

I have a couple of suppliers offering the Red Grandis product for exterior use, and I am considering its possible use in exterior shutters and/or screen doors. My biggest concern would be stability in regards to twisting or warping. Does anyone have any experience with how this stuff holds up over time?

4/7/15       #2: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
David R Sochar Member

I see it is a Eucalyptus species, and I see it is plantation grown.

I have no direct experience with it. I do now believe that ring density is 100% what lads to stability and rot proofing. Unfortunately, that means old growth, larger, scarcer trees, of which there is a very limited supply.

Lyptus (similar species?) did not live up to the promotional marketing. I think it is noted for being less stable rather than more stable, in exterior situations. I am now selling WRCedar, VG for over $7.50 a b/f - nice stuff, but it is now twice what it was 7 years ago.

Accoya - acetic acid treated?

Torrified?

Where are we going to go?

4/7/15       #3: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Dan / drbwoodworks

We used it last year , we were disappointed . You are right it is eucalyptus . We found it to have lots of stress in it . We are sticking to Spanish cedar , sapele and cypress for our exterior millwork . It milled nicely through the molder , though

4/7/15       #4: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Mitch Suber  Member

Website: subercustomshutters.com

I did not realize this was eucalyptus, I have some experience with that, but in a interior application. My dilemma of course is keeping my stiles straight and true, they are usually 2" x 1 3/8" and average around 72" to 84" in shutter panels. Normally select cypress is my go to wood, very plentiful here in the southeast at reasonable prices. Unfortunately I have a lot of splits or cracks that open up after milling, causing extra labor and untimely repairs. I was hoping the Red Grandis was a possibility. I was quoted 2 x 12 WR cedar today at $9.00 a board foot. The heavy dimension probably had something to do with it, but I rip this stuff up pretty good as all my parts are fairly small, especially the louvers and stiles.

4/7/15       #5: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Larry

We tried Lyptus, another Eucalyptus. Machined OK but too many boards wanted to go crazy when ripped. It was promoted as plantation raised (green) and stable. Looks nice. Stuff grows really fast. Maybe the Red G is more stable. Can't hurt to make a few shutters as trail/test pieces. Let us know.

4/7/15       #6: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Mitch Suber  Member

Website: subercustomshutters.com

I was hoping to learn from someone else's mistakes, rather than foot the bill for my own. I just went thru that using extira on a order of raised panel shutters, but that turned out alright, so far.
I guess I will bring in a few boards just to try for my rails which are somewhat forgiving, but stay with cypress for the most part as I know I can make that work. Thanks for the replies everyone, the information is most helpful. I do wish we had better availability here for smaller orders of WR Cedar. David, what does rough cedar average these days in quantities of 3-400 bf in your area?

4/8/15       #7: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
B.H. Davis Member

I try and stay away from WR Cedar as much as possible. The wood now available does not have the rot resistance one expects due to the smaller trees.

It is my understanding that the oils build in the wood over the lifetime of the tree. With the old growth WR Cedar long gone that leaves us with wood from younger trees that haven't yet developed full rot resistance in the wood.

I've seen this first hand with the deterioration of WR Cedar products in the New England environment. Perhaps Dr. Wengert will chime in here with his knowledge on the subject.

BH Davis

4/8/15       #8: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
mitch

B.H., I am seeing the same thing in reduced rot resistance of the cypress. Some lumber coming in better than others, but overall it is noticeable and I can tell just in the 25 years I have been using it. I am in cypress country too, where they are logging within 25 miles of my shop. An interesting thing I see is I can hardly get any locally, mainly due to the lack of kilns in this area and I only use kiln dried. Another factor is we had a lot of rain over the last few years making the river bottoms here inaccessible. Fortunately my drop delivery fees from 200 miles away are the same as the yards within 50 miles.
So if you are seeing newer growth in cedar lumber, as we all are in other woods, where does that lead? As David said, "where are we going to go". I am already figuring excessive waste for unusable lumber coming in the door. I wonder how high can I drive the price of wood products, before I don't get any orders. Small percentage of our business, but I do worry about product failures, whenever I do get to make exterior shutters. Also the pricing for waste makes me feel like I am pushing customers to the synthetic products. I am already fighting that same battle with vinyl interior shutters and the imports on top of that. But, I like wood. Just wish it liked me a little more!

4/10/15       #9: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Read

We started using Red Grandis about 4 years ago. It has become our "standard" material for exterior doors, fixed louvre shutters, and windows. We started using it because we were disappointed in the younger growth Spanish cedar and cypress. For applications where longevity is required we use Accoya.

I've lost count of the number of windows and doors we have made with it and we are yet to receive a call back.

Other posters have commented on stress, but we have found it to be straight and true.

Our experience is wholly positive so I'm wondering if the Red Grandis our distributor gets is slightly different?

I don't think you will be disappointed.

4/10/15       #10: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
door shop guy

I use it and reccomend it in place of African Mahogany when the customer agrees. I only make cabinet doors so no experience with exterior use. It is a night and day difference as far as color uniformity, and movement.

4/13/15       #11: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

Red Grandis is name that is a registered TM. The Latin name is Eucalyptus grandis. The species grows in South American, Australia and West Africa, often in plantations. It is fast growing with 23' height in one year sometimes. Usually, it is straight grained, with no big tendency to warp IF NOT from the juvenile core...first 15 rings. Some is, and that is where the bad experience comes from.

4/13/15       #12: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
mitch

Website: http://subercustomshutters.com

The product, or rather the brochure being presented is stating this is the South American product from Uruguay. The information does also state that they are using techniques to achieve yields within a 20 year growing cycle. Sounds like fast growth in such a short time frame would leave a less than desirable product. I ordered a small quantity today for testing and experimenting.

4/13/15       #13: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Larry

Thanks Gene. But "with no big tendency to warp IF NOT from the juvenile core...first 15 rings. Some is, and that is where the bad experience comes from."

If they are harvesting @ 20 years, 20 rings! Doesn't that make the plantation wood pretty prone to problems? Lyptus was promoted the same way, big trees in 20 years. I think Lyptus is also a trade mark.

4/14/15       #14: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

Although "15 years" is a rule of thumb, a 20 year old plantation tree is indeed likely to be mostly juvenile wood, so indeed warp is more likely. But read on...

Lyptus is a trade name for wood from a tree that is a hybrid of Eucalyptus grandis and E. urophylla. Some trees are harvested in 15 years.

Warp does happen from time to time in all species of wood and is more likely the closer the lumber is to the pith of the log. This is a general statement. At the same time, appreciate that all warp only occurs when the MC changes, so if we can minimize MC changes by proper drying to the correct final MC, we will minimize and/or eliminate warp in use, unless the humidity of the environment varies a lot. For this reason, it is prudent to ALWAYS CHECK THE MC of all species using a good moisture meter, following the meter's instructions precisely- -"good" means over $200 and made in USA. In many or most cases, the in-use MC of wood in a home or office will average 6.8% MC, so being at that value, plus or minus 1%, is quite reasonable and will indeed eliminate warping in use, etc. problems; "bad press" happens when the lumber is not at this low MC level! But is used anyway.

Do not believe a sales person or a shipping invoice. Check the MC yourself. If I offered you an insurance policy to protect yourself against warp that cost $200 or so, would you buy it? That is what checking with a moisture meter is all about.

4/14/15       #15: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Larry

We only used Lyptus for a couple of jobs. The problem was mostly due to our inability to get a straight rip on many of the boards. We checked moisture with a meter and it tended to be in the 7%+- range. It was only in the shop for a few days before being processed. Some of it worked fine but way too many boards just went wild coming off the SL rip saw. Reaction wood doesn't seem likely in plantation grown stock. Bad storage before we got it? All lumber here is kept inside the shop.

I like the look of it, the density, it mostly molded nice, good sizes. So what's not to like? Would be great to make wooden pretzels.

4/15/15       #16: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Keith Member

Website: http://www.lewislp.com

Red Grandis is indeed a trade name for Eucalyptus Grandis. There are some 600+ subspecies of Eucalyptus. Lyptus is a hybrid of two species of Eucalyptus and its properties vary depending on the density of the wood. That is true of any species, so it is important to look for color consistency as much as possible. That will be a good guide for density and that will be a good guide for stability. That certainly is not the only way. We have traded in Eucalyptus Grandis (Red Grandis) for 10 years. It is a very good product for consistency in color and stability over all. That does not mean that there may have been some at some point dried improperly. We also have documentation on exterior testing done in a UK lab that categorizes Red Grandis similar in exterior properties to African Mahogany. No wood is perfect, but this is a nice species. It has a mahogany type grain, light weight, low Janka rating, machines well, glues well, MC consistent. It is definitely worth trying. It has great appeal as far as sustainability. One steady source we use is FSC certified. This is grown in a grassland state and not tropical. Try that on for size against African Mahogany and Spanish Cedar!

4/16/15       #17: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Larry

"Do not believe a sales person" How can you say that! :-)

4/17/15       #18: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

When we rip a piece of lumber and the two pieces are not straight right after we cut them, there are three possible causes. It is not easy to tell which cause is the correct one in a specific instance, but we can make a pretty good guess.

The three causes are:
1. Growth stress in the tree. Growth stresses (seen mostly in the lengthwise direction, in the tree are common in the first 15 years of growth. In pine, we see more in plantation stock, but I am not sure if it is the genetic stock used or something with plantation growth. There are volumes written about these stresses and the attempts to eliminate them. As yet, I have not seen any relief method that a secondary processor could use and achieve good results. Note that growth stresses would not be balanced from left edge to right edge, in a piece of lumber. As a result, the piece of lumber will not usually be straight after drying. Further, when cutting the fingers to check for stress (DRYING HARDWOOD LUMBER, p. 102), the fingers would be erratic in their deviation. Due to growth stresses, the sawmill will usually have to saw with two saws to keep stresses balanced and avoid excessive warp in the green lumber. End splits will be severe; over 1/4" wide and often a foot long or so.

2. Casehardening (also called drying stress and tension set) in the lengthwise direction. This develops due to lengthwise shrinkage in drying and is again common in the first 15 years of growth. However, the stress is uniform from left to right edges, so when fingers are cut (DHL, p. 102), the deviation will be uniform (mirror images), left to right. Note that the prong test for stress where the sample is in the shape of the letter "U" is not appropriate for lengthwise stress; the longitudinal stress sticks are correct.

3. Moisture gradient. We do see more lengthwise shrinkage in the wood from the first 15 years of growth than from later wood; later wood is often zero shrinkage. So, if a piece of lumber has an edge that is drier than the core, there will be attempted shrinkage of the edge prior to ripping, which will cause the ripped pieces to bend toward the edge; and then there will be bending over time toward the core as the wetter core shrinks. In this case, the fingers (p.102) will move after cutting.

3/18/17       #19: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Kyle

Thank you all for the posts this was very informative and impartial.

4/5/17       #20: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Waldo

Red Grandis is an Australian eucalypt and is native to Australia only, it is grown in plantations elsewhere throughout the South America's and other places.

7/29/18       #23: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Matt

Just caught this thread looking for some other info on red grandis. We rarely do exterior work but we have a customer working on a restoration of a historical district house with miles of trim that needed to be replaced. Plastic/PVC was not an option and (of course) they were overbudget before the job started so Western red cedar was out. Our lumber supplier recommended red grandis and its been a great product. We're in Connecticut so perhaps the product is different in other parts of the country but we've purchased close to 5000 bf in the last 3 months of 4-8/4 and had no issues with warpage. We've run countless different shapes, profiles and sizes and haven't seen any warpage while its in the shop. We are finishing it with exterior primer so that may
be helping it but for less than half the price of WRC we are very happy with Red Grandis.

7/11/19       #25: Has anyone used Red Grandis lumber? ...
Arfur Member

Has anyone used Red Grandis for interior furniture? I'm concerned it may shrink or warp, would be very helpful to hear from any cabinet makers who have tried it.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)