Architectural Woodworking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Wood choice for exterior column base?

6/6/16       
Keith Newton

My shop is in a historic neighborhood, so I'm pretty often ask to mill parts for my neighbors.

I was about to head out to buy some Spanish Cedar to glue up for the base of a 12" column, which would be three layers of six segments each with mitered ends, then glued up and turned on the lathe.

I have a pretty good supply of Eastern Red cedar, Juniperus virginian a, which I milled on my Woodmizer, that would be air dried down to ~ 12%.

I'm planning on priming whichever wood I choose with CPES, before delivering to the carpenter that will install. THey will end up being painted white.

What I'm wondering, is whether the AD ER cedar might not be a better choice than the KD Spanish cedar, due to my expectation that the SC will open the outside of the miters as it picks up moisture, going up from 6% before settling on 12%. At least my ERC is already equilibrium.

Also, since my ERC is known to bleed resin, under certain conditions, would the CEPS and then primer prevent that issue, if that is an issue.

Did I mention that the Spanish C will cost me $100?

6/7/16       #2: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
TMFL

Why not use pressure treated wood? The ERC will fail fairly rapidly.

In fact, all wood will fail, eventually. I would use PVC for that job - since the end product will be painted why not use something that won't rot.

6/9/16       #3: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
Adam

This is the best WW response ever.

Use pressure treated or better yet use plastic....

6/9/16       #4: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
David R Sochar Member

I have used Spanish Cedar, Honduras Mahogany and clear Sugar Pine for column bases. The pine failed (open joints, rot starting, etc) after 10 years.

The Cedar and Mahogany still look fine.

I do recommend and supply little 1/4" thick aluminum plate feet for the corners to keep the base off the masonry and out of water. These also allow air circulation into the column interior, an important part of long life for installs.

Pressure treated wood or plastic are certainly inappropriate choices.

6/13/16       #5: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
shoveoff

Why is PVC "inappropriate"? It doesn't rot and the finished product will be painted.

Sure, you won't have to redo the job and get paid a second time, so I guess from a make-work perspective, doing a job correctly the first time is "inappropriate".

6/13/16       #6: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
Keith Newton

Thanks David R. I hadn't thought of using aluminum for the little corner feet.

As for the plastic replacement material, this is in a historic district where that would not be acceptable. And I don't have a local source for any treated pine which is not totally saturated, which would lead to disaster. And that was the material used in the last replacement. It was thoroughly decayed.

Maybe in other parts of the world, the standard pressure treated wood isn't S Yellow Pine like here. The PT chemicals only penetrate and protect the sapwood, due to the extractives loading the cells in the heartwood.

As it turned out, I found a Spanish Cedar board left over from long forgotten job in my inventory, which was sufficient for this project, so I'm good.

6/15/16       #7: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
Larry

We do historic preservation stuff fairly often. How much of a exact match to the original that is required varies, a lot. Money often dictating. In extreme cases the crude machining that was originally done must be matched. Aluminum feet would definitely be a no go. Good solution, yup, historically correct, no.

6/15/16       #8: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
David R Sochar Member

PVC is inappropriate since it is not wood, and I am a professional woodworker. If someone wants to buy and install such things, they can do so.

Using good materials and methods and general best practice is a fine way to supply what is needed. Done correctly, they will last 50 years or more.

Whether historic or not, what I make will fit the bill better than searching for some plastic whizz-bang. I'll have my parts coming off the lathe before you ever find the right sizes and profiles. I am flexible.

Columns were - and still are to some - a sign of the financial horsepower that the owner marshaled to pull off correctly. It takes a lot of building for columns to work. Although if base and cap can be done in plastic, with drain pipe for the shaft (entasis? Who needs it?), why not put these on mobile homes? A garage? Class up the place some.

As for the aluminum feet, sometimes they are rejected by design people. Then they can still be used, just inset a bit with a machined rabbet to the outside so the aluminum takes the weight and wear, while the wood shows to the outside.

In my youth, I learned to put a 1/2" to 1" half round hole at the lower edge on all four sides of the base plinths. The better installers then put a bit of brass wool in each of these holes once in place to keep the bees and other bugs from getting in, while putting hardware cloth over the cap of the column to prevent birds and bats from entering. This also let the air move with thermo circulation, increasing the life of the columns. The fact that no one today knows such details makes for short life and a real "make work perspective."

6/15/16       #9: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
Larry

David, What you got against trailer houses? Some nice 4" diameter Corinthian columns would really class them up. Go right a long with the plastic shutters. We also used to provide vents top & bottom for wood columns. I've since discovered that the painters will typically caulk them full.
Historical preservation jobs are often controlled by committees. Takes a lot of time for them to agree on anything. Some will demand the same lumber species be used, some for something more durable, some for something cheaper. I try to not get involved. If asked I'll give an opinion, sometimes I give one because of stupid choices being made, but make what they want.

6/16/16       #10: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
David R Sochar Member

There was a builder here a few years ago that bought fluted metal tubes that were sold as columns with no taper, and no caps or bases. He made those out of treated deck scraps.

You've of the Ionic order? His was the ironic order.

I realized the other day that my penchant for good work was started - perhaps - by a boss I had when in my early 20's. He bought some decrepit antiques, many of them broken, falling apart, or missing parts. We would rebuild them and he would sell them for many more times what he paid for them. All above board, he even photographed the 'before' and the after.

In order to determine what we would make this tall case clock, or whatever look right to educated buyers, we used the old book Wallace Nuttig's Furniture Treasury. It had photos of all types and styles of antiques, and they were grouped as good, better and best. We would examine the photos to discern what made the differences and after a while we developed a pretty good working knowledge of better design and/or execution. We would always go for the 'best' and things always sold right away.

So in my life beyond antique repairs, I also applied the same decision making process when faced with the repeated question - How are we going to make this? Shooting for the high ground has always worked out best, no exceptions.

6/23/16       #11: Wood choice for exterior column bas ...
John Bishop  Member

Website: selectwoodworking.net

I am not smart enough to figure stuff out so I copy other peoples stuff. The United States government only will certify several woods for exterior use. The mahogany as mentioned already and Cyprus. We have use Cyprus many times on historical projects when it gets painted. For stain grade use the good stuff, genuine mahogany. Do not use any of the South African mahogany no matter what anyone says, it will fail badly.

Good luck

DJB


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)