ok. How do you price material cost of mouldings such as casing, base, crowns, and such??
Do you go by finished size and factor no waste??
Or do you have a waste factor on top of finished width and what percentage average do you use??
Curious on how others figure out how they come up with their material costs.
It is pretty simple - track your time and the material, add a markup for material, then add your overhead, then profit. You should already have a shop rate for labor that includes the overhead and profit. So then it would include the man hours times the shop rate, plus the material costs - all materials that went into making the molding - with your material markup on to that.
I tracked molding production in a shop for every day for 5 years - millions of l/f - and got labor values to three decimal points for each step in the process as well as waste factors for every pattern and species. I could predict the payback on machine changes and tooling modifications.
Know all your costs. Someone has to pay for that waste factor, correct?
Depends on if you only do wide profiles, or if you do small quarter rounds as well. On only wides, I would order straight line ripped stock from my supplier, then you have a fixed material price, basically no waste. If you all widths, then probably 20% waste. Maybe you have a straight line already, but can't tell what you are really doing from your short post.
So I currently take finished size and add 35% for waste for most woods. Some knotty woods I might add another 10-15% extra to the waste factor.
Then I take and figure out my material cost alone form that. I have a fixed cost then for ripping, cutting ends, running through moulder, sanding and then bundling for shipping. then after those costs are added to the material cost I put on my profit mark up and that will depend on size and end user I am selling too.
I was not sure how if others were figuring a waste factor on top of finished width and what percentage other use for waste factor.
Everything I bring in S2S usually no rip. I like to straight line all my stuff and rip to width my self. Seems like it is what cheaper for me to do that myself than to order in pre-ripped if under 10,000lft .
I created my own moulding calculator similar to the one on woodweb.
I've tracked waste for a lot of jobs. I find I need twice the area in material ordered as the area of finished molding of random length. I.E. a waste factor of 50%. For runs needing all wide and only one length, waste would be more. Ocationally a pattern will be such that it can be diagonally resawn, saves some material, takes labor & equipment.
First is how much over finished width you are ripping. For us, this varies by thickness and run size.
Next is how much, on average, you are ripping off. The wider the rip, the more likely you are to lose a larger percentage of material. For instance, on a 1" wide rip you are not going to ever lose more than one inch on the whole board, spread out over 3-4-6-10 pieces. However, if you are ripping 4", even if you only pick 4.5-5" material, you are wasting that over one piece/LF.
Next is dependent on species/grade. For us, on moulding, it's basically species, as we use all Sel+Btr/FAS. Walnut has a much higher waste factor than Ash, etc. Of course, if you are doing "product of x" this is not a factor.
If you are doing random length, that's it. But as Larry implied, if certain specified lengths are required you also have to account for that somehow. We don't have a real good formula for that, it's more of a gut feeling. Thankfully that doesn't happen often.
"If you all widths, then probably 20% waste"
rich c. is incredibly good, with perfect suppliers.
My suppliers aren't nearly that good. If we order a unit of say maple, spec'd as random width, 12' & longer, FAS, hit or miss 15/16. FAS does not mean defect free! Getting hit/miss means their planer ate most of the dirt and we can better see any defects so we can SL & rip for max yield @ the desired quality level. Things that will reduce yield and always be present: crook, long end splits, wane, knots, stain, twist, .... There will be very few of these but there will always be some. Lets say we are going to make 2 moldings out of a 6" board. Under ideal conditions you will get this: 3/8" SL loss, two kerfs @3/16, blank over size by 3/16 x 2, the drop maybe 3/8 = total 1 5/8 out of your 6" board. That is 27% and we haven't taken any loss for whatever boards had defects that reduced their yield. Or for boards that couldn't be optimized as well as my 6" example. Or for orders that have mostly wide moldings. Or wild boards that curl too much coming off the saw. Or for end trimming, if you do that. Lots of ORs!
I'm left to conclude that my operation and suppliers aren't nearly as good as you are, OR?
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.