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Covid 19 - Truth or Dare?
3/17  3 --  |
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Without getting lost in dead end political name calling, what is going on with this virus stuff?
Some people appear to be paralyzed with fear, some seem to laugh it off as a political move, some know a whole lot, and some know nothing about it.
I avoid most people as a matter of course. A handy predilection since it now matters to keep your distance. For me, it could be life or death since I am in the high risk group. I now plan on not engaging any live humans except at a distance.
I am thinking of the bell curve, not for infection rates, but for belief in infections, if you will. Where is the 'fat' of the bell? Who is at the thin ends of the curve, and why?
NPR has some good reporting, everyone else is inaccurate, breathless, don't care, care to much, or just runs gov't power show over and over. They are wrong more than they are right.
Whom to believe?
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All our bay area jobs are shutdown for 3 weeks, laminated panel company closed for 3 weeks. Hardware companies can ship currently.
Submittals not being approved for 3 weeks.
We prepared last week to make sure everyone in the office can work from home and tested it yesterday.
I doubt the death toll will in the US be much higher than a bad season of the flu.
We have 2 jobs that have exemptions that we can work on.
I can see needing more cash in 4-5 months as payments aren't going out.
My cruise to Alaska in May out of Vancouver will be cancelled in the next few days.
The worse thing for me is my 401k and future retirement accounts have taken a huge hit to where I will have about 15k-20k a year less in income
A-
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The death toll in the US may not be worse than a bad year of the seasonal flu in a 3 month span as opposed to a 12 month span.
I cant see any way possible that covid is going to kill 20,000 US citizens with 136 of them being children. (the flu)
The problem as always is the uncertainty.
The effect on the economy is going to be catastrophic. The flu doesn't close restaurants and business. It doesn't effect supply chains.
Im finding the drama of the mainstream and cable news to be extremely nauseating as Im sure most are. Foolish dramatic unrealistic questions posed to officials who are damned if they do and damned if they dont with an answer.
I would completely agree, NPR has some of the most calm, unbiased, and fact based coverage.
I am very concerned that virtually no small business is going to be able to weather 2 months of down time (if thats all it is). I am thankful to have plenty of work and after a couple of lean years be in an uber low overhead situation that we may be able to hang on.
My blind optimism is that the thing peters out and blows over in a month. But several of my customers are schools and health care facilities and they are all speaking to mid/late summer.
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Advantage of being a sole proprietor single guy is I'm isolated. Wife works from home and my youngest (22 yo) is still in college and since that's closed he's now isolated too.
I called up my main supplier and their people don't plan on closing down unless the FED forces them to.
I think it's a big overreaction. It seems to be much easier to transmit to others, yes. But for the most part I'll bet that the mortality rate will be similar if maybe a little higher than the normal flu. The govt is basically destroying the economy over this. From what I've seen in reports the average age of people who have succumbed to this is 81. So far they've said children 10 and under don't seem to be affected. Up to about 50 yo the chance of death is less than .4% and as the age goes up so does the percentage, mostly due to compromised systems that tend to happen as you age.
The outrageous claims of some saying millions will die from this is scare tactics.
The biggest problem I see is that they haven't figured out exactly how it is transmitted from person to person. I've heard touching, airborne, surface contact. That it can't hang in the air, then all of a sudden they say it can hang out for 3 hours. One of the consistent things they have said is 3hrs on smooth surfaces like glass and metal.
I won't get into the political side of it because I think there is a big area of mistrust towards governments (around the world).
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Leo,
I think your position is overwhelmingly the norm. The problem is the metrics if just left to run their course could be disastrous (may be a better option).
Ive long had a philosophy that the fish tank needs a good purge once in a while. In this scenario that means a lot of people are going to hav eto sya goodbye to their 70+ parents and grandparents in a, perhaps, less than pleasant way (not that any way is pleasant).
To sound like a total douche, my concern isnt really the unpleasantry, (my entire family has passed and none of them were pleasant) but the cost to try to save it all on the way down.
To me the transmission and fatality rates when extrapolated out of the course of a year to compare to the average flu would be something I would never wish on anyone.
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Well I may get a little political here.
My Draftsman, a 22 yr old college student,a great kid ! I co- signed on his 5K loan so he could do a semester abroad in Rome Italy.
He came back last week, and already has gotten notice that since he's back, payments are due ! It Was a FSA Loan-WTF ?....
I said stay away for 2 weeks before you can come back to work, Yes -I am emailing him plans to work remotely.
Big Biz Get Bailouts... Small Biz gets loans we have to pay back...
I am an "Essential Worker" ! If I don't work -my family doesn't get health insurance !....To pay for those tests !
So-When our Illustrious leader today said he gives himself a 10! for what's happened so far LOL !
Here's his own 10 I give Him back...
1). It's one BIG HOAX folks
2). it's the same as the flu
3). it will go away on its own like magic
4). it will go away when the weather gets warmer
5). I don't take any responsibility for it
6). leave those 2,500 people on the Cruise Ship from Hawaii about to dock in Oakland, CA to remain out at sea, if I had it my way they would ALL stay on that ship because I don't want them to disembark to receive medical attention which would ADD to the number of Corona Virus cases in the U.S.
7). this will all be over by April (three weeks from today)
8). everyone should continue going to work if they have symptoms, it won't be a problem for anyone
9). we have everything under control no need to worry (new reported cases in the U.S. continues to rise by the hundreds per week.
10). we will have a vaccine soon in just a few days (the medical director of NIH very clearly stated that a Vaccine is far off at least 1 1/2 year at the earliest if not longer.
And # 11. I stocked up on T.P. for all the ...
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Well like David, I've been practicing "social distancing" for most of my life!!
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Mark, when this finally finishes up I think the mortality rate will be in the area of 0.1-0.3%. The way they are measuring it now is stupid. Known cases vs known deaths equals mortality rate. They brought these numbers up before any widespread testing was available. When they start doing 1000s of tests a day the mortality rate is going to plummet.
I don't wish death on anyone. But as it stands a normal flu season in the US is 20-80K deaths. And that's without shutting the country down and destroying the economy.
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Serious people are taking this seriously. You think the pro sports leagues just cancel their seasons on a whim? That schools and restaurants all over the country shut down for no reason? The nonsense from the President isn't what's frightening. It's the projections from people who know what they are talking about.
Maybe it will be less terrible than expected. That would be great.
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I don't care what anyone thinks. I don't care about people dying. There's about five people on the entire planet I care about.
It doesn't matter what you do, if It wants to spread, it's going to spread. That's going under the very ballsy assumption that it hasn't already.
If this spirals outta control, you're gonna wish they just let the virus burn through the population. If it goes to civil breakdown, a whole lot more people are gonna die from violence and starvation, or accidents involving avoiding the previous two. This place will go Walking Dead sans zombies in hurry.
This whole debacles does put into question whether or not the 1st Amendment is a power the people can handle.
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Our shop is four people total. One of my builders uses a couple of shops, one of which is good sized. I called the builder today and told him if the other shop is forced to stop work because of their size, I'll take the jobs and we WILL hammer them out.
I will not let this stupidity kill my company, and if grants me an opportunity, I will take it.
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Two of my favorite quotes:
From Persian folklore: "This too shall pass."
From Phillip K. Dick: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Both seem applicable in the current situation. I think that the low numbers are reflective of a diminished capacity to test people, as if to say "We can't test you for it, so you must not have it."
Perhaps the number of confirmed cases will be in direct proportion to the number of test kits available. Sounds like one of Donald Rumsfeld's "unknown knowns". Or maybe one of his "known unknowns".
Two weeks ago, this was a hoax, and it was all Obama's fault. Now, the government encourages "social distancing" and are looking to put forth a trillion dollar bailout. The complete turnaround would be funny if it weren't true.
Like others here, I was social distancing when social distancing wasn't cool, and long before it was a Presidential recommendation. I truly feel bad for those who don't have the situational flexibility or financial resources to endure this dilemna.
Good night and good luck.
TonyF
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I am with Paul Downs, good practices prepare for the worst, then hope for the best, this has always been a good principle.
I mean really is asking someone to wash their hands multiple times in a day such a bad thing.
My 85 YO mother is Quarantined, Once it gets close you will care.
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It is group think driven my media hyperbole.
The scary part is the mass hysteria and the fallout from that.
I doubt very much that this will be worse than any flu season
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I hope you are right.
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Do I think this is a hoax? absolutely not. This is very real, but is it worth tanking the economy over? not a chance.
They keep talking about a nationwide quarantine, what happens to guys like Karl, myself and all the other small shops that can keep our employees going through this? I know my guys rely on that paycheck being there as we all do.
How come Tesla is still operating normally as of yesterday afternoon? Even though Alan said the bay area is shut down for 3 weeks.
Don't get me wrong, I do take this seriously as my parents have compromised immune systems and are at the most risk. We are in the north part of Chicago which increases or odds of exposure anyway. But me at 38 i'm not worried.
But do I think this is a media induced panic frenzy with the election coming up, Absolutely!
A nationwide quarantine would most definitely push us into what Karl describes above.
I apologize for the rant, I'ts just been many years of hard work to get the company at a good place and now the outcome is very uncertain...
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In my state of CT we currently have 68 cases and 0 deaths. The front page of my local rag say there are likely thousands of cases in CT, sighting this without evidence. And reading the article they are guestimating there are 6000 cases that have gone undiagnosed.
So what this means to me for the most part is this is very overblown if we have all these cases and no one is dying from it. The overblown estimate of 2-5% mortality is more like .1-.3%, just like the normal flu.
They have destroyed the entire planets economy over this. Over in China there were 3200 deaths out of 1.5 billion people.
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Here is a are the real numbers on this
Real Data
The reported numbers are low because no one is tested. The number of infections is almost the same as the number of test kits. Why? Think about it. Without testing, we are blind. Trump told the WHO the US did not need any test kits. He also cut $700M from the CDC budget and closed the fast response office of the CDC that was formed to respond quickly to these threats. He and his gang of buddies have repeatedly misinformed his subjects to the point where confusion is the most prevalent response.
The best science is estimating there are 10 times more cases than now known in US. Today's number is 600, or 6,000. That number will double about every 3 days. In a 10 days, that is over 6 million. The math is where it is scary. Then it doubles again, and again.....
Our leaders are idiots. Our medical community is hamstrung/unprepared (due to the prevailing thought stated in the above posts) and on the verge of being overwhelmed.
120,000 ventilators in the US. 6 million cases will require every one of those ventilators for up to 2 weeks. Zip! We are out of those, and that is when we will have to just let people die because we can't help them. No rooms in the hospitals, so stay home and please wait for the wagon to come by before you bring out the dead.
There will be too many sick people to deal with.
Paul Downs said it best - "Serious people are taking this seriously." Cancel the NCAA???!!! Cancel SXSW??!! Hundreds of millions of dollars lost not by overreacting, but by biting the bullet.
Pat's link is excellent for a big picture, but remember, there is almost no testing being done, so we are only counting about 1 in 10 cases.
What I keep waiting for is when is a real, global, conversation going to emerge with regards to tradition/ritual/whatever, eating bush meat is at the root of many of these nightmares and needs to come to a quick end. Fruitcakes pecking the skull caps off monkeys anteaters and consuming bats and lord knows what else, in a global economy, needs to get whittled down and fast.
Kansas killed school for the rest of the year. Many small business in my state (West By God, the last state to have a confirmed case) are just closing because the cost to stay open with such reduced revenue is a hemorrhage worse than closing for a period. The conversation has been going on here for a week now that school will not be resumed this school year. And how will those hours be made up?
Ive yet to hear of any health care projects being idled but my guess is in this industry that will be soon to come. We have a heath care facility job going now and anyone entering the building must go through the front, temp check, sit at nurses station, answer questions, be logged in. If anything gets worse I would imagine the other 10 locations slated for renovation will be shelved.
Some other customers are still issuing P.O.'s that are in the retail trade with trade shows in the near future that have all been canceled. I had assumed all those P.O.s would go on hold but not yet.
Got this a short while ago,, the Lawyers are now involved
Yeah, and the guy who thinks this is all a hoax or needs his paycheck for his family or his truck payment just signs it so they can get paid. Then of course the fear is if its found you consciously lied about your exposure or symptoms.....
Gonna get freaky.
Regardless of our own opinions of how this is being handled, there is no doubt at this point that business is going to slow down drastically for all of us at some point. For me, I'm booked for about 6 weeks and after that I expect it to dry up completely.
The question in my mind is what to do at that point? I have enough saved to weather a storm for 6 or 8 months. But do I pay my overhead costs? Who is going to evict me if I don't? Do I pay my insurance premiums?
Cash is going to be king. The more effective our government is at "flattening the curve", the longer the economic downturn is going to be.
David
As the quantity of testing goes up the mortality rate as percentage will go down because the denominator will be larger and numerator will remain the same.
After seeing the reaction by the public to this virus, it's no wonder the government would never tell us about aliens....
Matthew,
Option #3 is to just kiss it up to god and go on, hope it blows over and is nowhere near as bad as it could be.
My gut feeling is the blows over option but I have several markers in my life where I was like "bah.. there is nothing to worry about" and someone sitting next to me said, "dude, your nuts Im getting out of here" and had I sat there thinking they were a bunch of chicken littles things would have gotten real bad, real fast.
I try to find the balance in there somewhere but that idiot invincible 18 year old is still in there somewhere 40+ years later...
When you see these big virus balls in the street run you know you are near infection, that's what I am looking for.
Star Trek Voyager had an episode that had Macro Viruses that grew the size of basketballs. LOL
Pats Johns Hopkins site has gone up 8K confirmed cases in 6 hours.
The truth of the matter is that it is really not in our control.
The plan is simple, conserve cash and wash your hands. There is really not much else you can do.
I believe the media coverage is causing the panic that is tanking the market. That's a problem.
Mark
You need to take the site into context. It counts worldwide population (minus Greenland for some reason) so another 6K isn't really that many.
The US is now going to be testing furiously and that is going to produce a new and ongoing spike.
It also looks like S. America and Africa are starting to be put into the equation whereas they weren't really that active as of yet.
Remind me how many people are on the planet?
John's Hopkin interactive CV19 map
If you look at S Korea where are doing the most testing the mortality rate is around 1%,
Ergo more testing lowers the mortality statistics.
Also the median age of the population may be a factor. Italy is at 45.5 years, S Korea is at 41.8 years, US is at 38.1 years
Median age by country
Everyone keeps saying we don't really know how many people have it b/c everyone hasn't been tested. So what? Does everyone get tested for the flu every year? You don't think the number of cases of the flu isn't higher every year than those tested for it? I've had what was most likely the flu many times and have never gone to the doctor to get tested or treated for it as I'm sure many other people haven't either. It's highly likely that if I or others contract COVID-19 that the symptoms won't warrant a visit to the doctor for testing.
If you're in the high risk category you should have every right to your social distancing, and there should be charitable programs in place to get necessities to those who would prefer to avoid going into public as a precaution; or maybe just wear nitrile gloves and medical masks when going out like they do in China. On the flip side of that, everyone else should be able to continue going about business as usual with a few well advised sanitary precautions, or not.
We're all going to die one way or another. This one particular way isn't worth shutting down the global economy over. The virus isn't the hoax; the hoax is the blowing out of proportion to cause hysteria by those who would see the economy shut down for political and power gains. And so what if the NBA shut down it's season or schools closed down? Monkey see, monkey do(toilet paper, Hello?); no one want's to be seen as the bad guy who didn't heed the dire warnings if this really does turn out to be the Black Death of the 21st century; which is highly unlikely according to facts from CDC website. I'm good with being that guy. What good is all the precaution going to do when you're sitting around a campfire by the river in a loincloth trying to catch your dinner or standing in a breadline with your hand out?
Our county is only reporting positive cases, tests done by physicians through private labs that are negative are not reported so the numbers are skewed.
The WHO stats for China had the high mortality rate at over 80, smokers with other health issues, then over 70, then over 60. The mortality rate drops with age and health.
If negative tests aren't reported then the stats are useless.
If you want to manage it you have to measure it.
No statistics is worse than some/flawed statistics.
I think Steven has it right though
If this were as deadly as the Spanish flu and the global mortality rates were the same we are talking about 225 million to 375 million dead over 18 months.
Fortunately healthcare, sanitation, drugs have all vastly improved in 100 years. I just can't see the mortality rates hitting those numbers over the next 18 months.
(1000^3)*7.5*.03 (1000^3)*7.5*.05
The real race is a global race to a vaccine that works at an accelerated timeline.
There are some other efforts out there that are closer than 18 months. The most promising is the link below, based on a similar strain used to treat animals.
Link to article
Because the virus mutates that is tough.
Slowing it down is a good target
It seems to me that targeting the most vulnerable should be key.
Quarantining the economy is more about politics and very bad for business
Too much normalcy bias in the States. States very soon to be like Italy. If you are running around without a mask and goggles then you are asking to get it. It is airborne. To say that you do not care about people dying...you need mental help.
2008-09 best case outcome (25% chance my opinion)
The dominoes are days from falling beyond a point they can be tipped back up. There is simply way to much debt at every level- government, corporate, private and especially at the leveraged speculative level.
Anyone that lives in the world today should have enough basic science to understand the spread of disease. Whether public water well, sneezing or mosquito, disease transmission is a fact of life and also a regulator of life.
Yes, everyone must die, but is it OK for the instrument of death to be a fast food wrapper? Or failed response by the government? None of us wants to die this way, nor do any of us 'deserve' death by Corona. Since blame is a large part of the epidemiology of outbreaks, it gets confused with cause, effect, and reason. Toss in a little religion ("Pray it away" Pence!), and truth is gone and confusion reigns.
Steven's response is typical. He doesn't have it, doesn't plan on getting it, so he has no reason to change his behavior. The 2 week incubation delay rules out that logic.
There is no way (short of testing) that Steven knows if he is infected today. Infected today, not feeling too bad, certainly will still go to work, he could infect hundreds first generation, thousands by the third generation and millions by the fifth generation.
So, modifying Steven's behavior becomes a moral point. Not religion, but the morality of not doing enough (anything) to curb the spread cannot be questioned. He does not get to devalue other people's lives in order that his own not be curtailed in any way.
Americans are not known for logical thought, and it really shows in a conversation about the spread of a pandemic. The virus, as small as it is, behaves in a very controlled way, yet can affect a whole planet. Hell, it might even do what the Democrats could not do - defeat Trump.
David in you first sentence you said:
"Without getting lost in dead end political name calling"
It seems you are not quite following your own rule. This is essentially name calling.
Toss in a little religion ("Pray it away" )Pence!
Very difficult topic, no one really knows what is going to happen. I think we all hope for the best and plan for the worst.
A minority of the population is at greater risk, the government solution is to put everything on lock down in the mean time small business will drop like flies.
Not to mention agencies that will continue on in perpetuity like TSA, FEMA, Homeland Security, etc etc etc
Sorry door shop guy, (while I do appreciate your virtue signaling), I wasn't given much in the line of compassion. I'm too analytical.
The reason I don't care? According to seven seconds of google searching there is about 7.8 billion people on this planet. That's more than enough. As I said, there's about 5 people out of that 7,800,000,000 that I genuinely care about. Maybe another 10 that I would be concerned about. If all but that 15 blinked out of existence, I couldn't care less. Give me my dog and I'll just spend my remaining life walking and living hunter gatherer style. Probably happier, and likely healthier.
What this virus lacks, is perspective.
So wheres all the hand wringing over those few things?
https://ourworldindata.org/what-does-the-world-die-from
Here's a fun one in my few minutes of research. The TOP 10 CAUSES of DEATH! Read it like a talk show host, it's more fun that way.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-deat You're not going to live forever, nobody is. I don't really care if I live to be eighty five, or through the next 85 minutes. It's all the same. You are nothing more than a spec of atoms and molecules spinning around on a rock, swirling around in a galaxy made up of billions of solar systems, whizzing through the infinite universe with billions of other galaxies. Nothing you do matters, nothing you accomplish matters, except to you and your maybe 5-15 people who are in the same boat as you.
Now whether I live the next 85 years or 85 minutes, I don't want to spend it shooting people in the face to protect myself and my five people, or to take what they have to feed my five. (I keep hearing Charles Barkley in my head: "Are you in my five?") Because of a complete social breakdown, and that is a real possible reality. Shut the power off, people start getting hungry real fast, and things will get western real fricking fast. Now, that's a far fetched reality, because the advertising whores will need something else to grab your attention in a few weeks, and hopefully, we're back to business as usual.
Humans have existed for roughly 200,000 years. We've had our ass kicked a few times. There's a theory that 12,000 years ago a comet smashed high in the northern hemisphere and killed a good portion of the population. The Toba eruption was about 70,000 years ago, and genetic studies point to the global population was dropped down to between 3,000-10,000 humans total. Total! 1500 years ago the Justinian plague killed between 25-50 million people. The population at that time was approximately 200 million.
Perspective folks. We are our own worst enemy in this.
I dont know that the sole cause for caution is the mortality rate alone. Its the total cost to the system. Medical care, lost wages and production, and so on. While mortality motivates, people (mainly in the US) are motivated by only two things, physical, or financial, pain. Morality usually takes a back seat to greed and want.
On a side note, we got our first batch of emails yesterday that jobs are to be safed-off and critical components completed by months end and they will be idled. These are healthcare jobs understandably looking to limit in-out traffic from trades and deliveries. Mail state that once things have settled work will resume. This will result in facilities with reduced capacity due to renovations being parked in place and of course trades and vendors on hold with what potential for resumption of the project down the road when and if the subs or the GC are still afloat.
I fought some respiratory infection Oct, Nov, and all of Dec. I couldn’t shake it until I started 2 BComplex a day.
I woke up with a butterfly rash on my face a month ago. I know it means Lupus. The pain creeping through my body is unbearable at times . I’m good. I’m fighting with a plant based diet and feeling better daily.
I’m worried for my children. But they are doing very well in school and take no prisoners in allowing social media to control their emotions
I have survived pneumonia 11x in my adult
My neighbor just passed yesterday from complications, name or reason not in the obit yet. I pray for the family
Scientists look to the data. The Chinese have a lot to teach us as so do the Koreans.
We lost a nephew to taking his own life. He was one incredible guy, great friend and a Vet. I will miss him His reasoning was interwoven between PTSD, pain, other things and last but not least a nod to the COVID virus. He was a hell of a field medic.
This is a very real problem whether hype or not. My neighbor passing truly brought it home.
I cannot sit idly by so we are cranking up the volume and the staff goes shopping for personal supplies when the grocery trucks get in and we keep on.
Good luck to all stay safe, be strong.
Godspeed
Has anyone heard how Harold Morantz is doing ?
Karl,
If we changed our priorities to simply not treat anyone over a certain age (say 75), we could allow the virus to spread as quickly as possible, and our health care system could treat the young people instead who have a serious reaction.
I totally agree that 7.8 billion minus a few million isn't necessarily a bad thing.
David R Sochar,
You don't know anything about me. I can just as well say that your a tyrant from what you posted. Your attitude is what causes tyranny and oppression on this planet. I'm not devaluing anybody else's life or putting anyone else in danger any more than they're choosing to take a risk and go out in public and keep their businesses open. Have you been to get your test yet? Maybe you have it and have already spread it around. I go to work as a one man shop and I understand the facts and try to use logical and rational thinking, so I haven't gone to visit with my parents or grandparents and keep my distance from others when I do choose to go out.
I just saw the Governor of my state tweet that I and my fellow citizens were irresponsible and he may have to take more drastic measures if we continue in our irresponsible behavior; I'm an adult and don't need you or other tyrants telling me I'm irresponsible and controlling my behavior, which is completely reasonable, at gunpoint. If the coronavirus is a worldwide crisis that warrants invoking the war powers act then say goodbye to any freedoms we had left b/c now anything can be deemed a crisis. Witness the preview of socialism at a grocery store near you.
Now, go outside and make sure no one's out and about, and if they are, make sure you call 911 and rat them out.
Wow, I can’t believe some of the responses I have read in this forum, no wonder the world is such a mess when we have no care for our fellow mankind. This virus doesn’t say hhmmm, you are 74, I think I will wait to find a 75 year old, it finds a host and it spreads, If you don’t isolate, test and track it, it will infect everyone, probably mutate a bunch of times and get worse and kill hundreds of thousands or millions of people and your concerned about your business and the economy. It doesn’t care who you are or what age you are, a majority of younger people so far get mild symptoms and recover, but in China and Italy there are lots of 30 year olds who have also died.
As the numbers are not getting drastically worse the hype sure is. The sate wide quarantines are coming, I think CA already started...
Yes, I do agree that some of the priority's by the emergency response my not be the best route but it is what it is. Anybody else on here find it strange that China is running its factories at almost 100% capacity? And the US & Europe are facing mass shortages of supplies? As we go into panic/shutdown China's economy is skyrocketing.
I'm not so worried about the virus, its the criminals who have zero respect for others. Courts are shut down, cops are told to do nothing or issue tickets, and they are letting "non violent" offenders out of jail/prison.
The #1 priority as always is to protect our families. I truly envy you guys that live out in the country in times like this.
Stay safe and healthy everyone! Hopefully this passes sooner than later and we can get back to work.
Henry
The captain"s" usually go down with the ship. So likely anyone in that building from the janitorial staff on up is potential collateral damage. Not to mention the fact that they likely have a team of the best doctors, personal assistant's keeping them vitamin'd, hydrated, fed, and so on.
"The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.
Projecting the Diamond Princess mortality rate onto the age structure of the U.S. population, the death rate among people infected with Covid-19 would be 0.125%. But since this estimate is based on extremely thin data — there were just seven deaths among the 700 infected passengers and crew — the real death rate could stretch from five times lower (0.025%) to five times higher (0.625%). It is also possible that some of the passengers who were infected might die later, and that tourists may have different frequencies of chronic diseases — a risk factor for worse outcomes with SARS-CoV-2 infection — than the general population. Adding these extra sources of uncertainty, reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%."
After all if we are going to jump off a cliff we should know as much as possible about the situation?
Not histrionic article on the subject
SBA Economic Injury Disaster Loans
These are loans for economic injury from crovid-19 if you sustain economic loss you can borrow money and stretch it out over 30 years. Interest not to exceed 4%.
My banker wants us to think about applying now in case it goes real south.
If you are hit from lack of sales this can help, Its an online app.
I am just providing this for information for those that may want to take advantage.
We may apply to replace the working capital that we consume over the next few months just keeping the bills paid.
A-
https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/Information/EIDLLoans
Pat,
FM
The current situation is far from predictable, I thought the points made in the article were apt
As honest as possible with the current data
Alan.
Thank you so much
David has the most common sense its no joke .
Did the numbers I'm okay can ride this out for a while but I feel for some one starting out this is going to be rough.
I know the Canadian government is going to help the little people .I hope all finical resource don't repeat like the mortgage crises and end up in the pockets of the corporation,
"I hope all finical resource don't repeat like the mortgage crises and end up in the pockets of the corporation."
Of course it will. Because smart people essentially always win, and dumb people have trouble spelling win.
If the population keeps reacting the way they are, this I'd bet this is going to make 2008 look like a hiccup. The good news is, 2008 did the most damage to the trades.
If this economic shut down lasts in to the summer more people will die from bankruptcy and suicide.
Trump's base is most at risk from Covid 19. They need him.
If you overlay CDC maps of rates obesity, smoking cigarettes, COPD, and Trump support, they line up. These areas are mostly concentrated in the central and southern US. The people on the coasts seem to be healthier, and not support Trump. This is a disaster I never wanted to see.
I also trust NPR on their reporting. it seems to be a pretty serious new strain of virus and we are not prepared for it. funding for pandemics was cut by present administration but when trump first took office the two areas that obama warned him about was north korea and possible pandemics. in communities where social distancing is not common, there has been widespread infection and this doesnt happen yearly and as fast. I am an orthodox jew and live in fort lauderdale. we have a small community with 70 people on a usual sabbath and we have closed the building and there are no group services, which are crucial to prayer. in larger communities like Boro Park or Crown heights in brooklyn, they were late to implement socioal distancing and closing of houses of worship and this virus has spread like wildfire with many older people now on respirators and several have died. This is not a run of the mill flu and we have no therapy for it. its not a democrat hoax and its not going away soon.
Get your facts straight. NPR is left leaning.
Article from Dr. Ron Paul
The Coronavirus Hoax
And one of the things you have to remember about political spin is when they say they took away funding from some project what it usually means is they didn't give them the increase they wanted.
If you hear them say they reduced funding by 2 million dollars it's most likely they were expecting a raise in funding of 4 million but only got 2 million, ie: reduction of 2 million dollars.
But in reality they got 2 million more dollars than they did the year before but are still complaining about a 2 million dollar reduction in what they wanted to get.
This is very typical of the way things get reported. It's spin.
The administration wanted to reduce the spending on the CDC, that got widely reported. But the reality is they didn't get the reduction. But no one reports that because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Wow. I'm guessing that given the lack of on-topic responses on the original thread, and all of the subsequent responses on this spin-off thread, that nobody cares about the coming Festool price increase in April.
:^)
Festool is already way over priced, the domino is a useful tool of theirs, I am surprised no one else makes something similar. Everything else they sell you can buy something equivalent for a third of the price. They would be better off to lower their prices, get more volume and make more profit.
As for Covid, I wish everyone the best possible outcome.
I'm in NE PA. and have not visited here in some time. However being a small,now one ,man shop I applied for an exemption to continue working based on the fact that my shop is not open to the public and I can store finished product until the quarantine is over. My exemption was denied and I was warned that serious fine and or licenses could be revoked if I continue operations. Seems all I am allowed to do is go to the lumber yard/hardware store and bring back supplies and look at them sit there. ??
A fellow crafts man with a crew of 10 was just given a warning to stop operations or face fines of 5K per day and loss of license.
As of this AM, Ron Paul has tested positive for the Corona virus, relating to the post 2 or 3 above this one. The rant linked to in post #64 appears to be one where the left/right, blue/red, right/wrong, duality is applied in an attempt to get the Trump Base unified 'against' the virus. Those MAGA hats have been shown to attract the virus......
The fact that Dr Ron has come down with the virus shows the virus doesn't care. Or does it?
We simply do not know enough to be definitive about anything except for the fact we do not know enough. Just as in the shop, when we don't know what we don't know, we suffer. We have all learned how to learn, though, so we are not immobilized by a shop quandary. This is different. We have to carry on, but we don't know the exact parameters of infection, much less death rates, infection rates, incubation, etc.
We (or, gawd help us, the Corona Task Force) have to make very important decisions with very little real data. That is frustrating. In my business, those are the worst decisions - where I can't know all I need to make the best choice.
Correction: Senator Rand Paul, Dr. Ron Paul's son is who has tested positive for Coronavirus.
Dr. Paul didn't appear to be ranting and raving. It seemed like a rational, measured, and well thought out warning against giving up the freedoms we all enjoy for some false sense of security that one might get holing up in their home hoping to ride the storm out and expecting their benevolent government leaders to take care of them and their family.
If Ron Paul is now buying the hype over all this just because Rand tested positive, he must be wringing his hands in fear and anguish telling his Son that he was just sentenced to death.
1.6 million deaths in 2017 from TB and no one in the media or government and especially not the general population batted an eye. 400 Coronavirus related deaths in the U.S. so far. All deaths are tragedies to the loved ones of the deceased, but some perspective is needed.
Yes, with very limited data precautions should be taken, but the fear and panic being created could just as likely be causing the virus to spread faster than if the response would have been more measured.
Gees Harry
In Calif construction is exempt...
with no PPE ?????
I don't think so
coulda sworn all the n95 were to go to medical
n95?
Construction Workers who support the construction, operation, inspection, and maintenance of
https://covid19.ca.gov/img/EssentialCriticalInfrastructureWorkers It makes perfect sense you wouldn't know what n95 are, or that there is a massive shortage.
once upon a time BM , PPE was required in the workplace....how truly sad.
If I recall correctly, N95 was a standard for particulate mask, that would effectively remove 95% of the matter from the air. They were (are?) form fitting because of a face contact edge made of foam, a bendable nose bridge, and it had two elastic straps to secure to your face.
I also recall that the ones made for construction were not meant for use in the medical profession, and vice-versa. Possibly the shortages of them will relax those standards.
I don't think that they do much for vapors, which is why I switched to a cartridge respirator. Perhaps all that has changed since I started using that respirator years ago. My memory is not what it used to be. Must be the vapors.
TonyF
Steven - Thanks for the correction. That will put and end to family dinners in the Rand households.
Paul's self serving piece most definitely sought to blame Democrats for the outbreak, despite all evidence to the contrary. At this time, we do not need leaders sowing division and blame. That could be the more reprehensible behavior - even more than insider trading on early briefings on Corona, or .... I don't need to detail it. Read the paper and listen to good news outlets, and read books. We will all find out soon enough of more instances of failed leaders.
If I give up cherished freedoms, etc, it is not due to my beliefs, it is due to the fact that leadership ignored loud, clear warnings and bullied their way around confronting the threat face to face. We all know Trump has neither the intellect or the staff to be able to comprehend the early days of a pandemic, much less dal with it in a manner that reduces threats instead of antagonizing it.
Tony
N95 masks for hospitals come sterilized. N95 for construction do not.
They can sterilize them in the hospital and have been figuring out how to reuse the masks they have by resterilizing them.
I have masks for the shop rated as n95 but have an exhale valve in them to reduce fogging of safety glasses. No medical masks have an exhale valve.
This quote seems apropo.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”
BTW, did anyone else notice that Julio's post(I think it was his) was removed/censored?
Speaking of debt, worldwide debt is in the many trillions of dollars. Who do we owe the money to--the Decepticons??
Cabinets are non-essential, unless they got ventilators in em give the world a break.
BTW it hurts me too.
Its nice to be going into this super lean with low overhead but what pisses me off is that when this is over i think we will be under mass socialism and Agenda 2030 will be fully implemented.
3/18
Member
3/18
Member
By that chart, my 600 cases (from CDC) is way low - J Hopkins has 6,000 cases in the US.
No matter, the exponential growth cannot be argued.
3/18
Member
3/18
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Re: Edgebander options advice
: 12/27
Re: mobile machine bases
: 01/09
Re: High humidity
: 01/24
Re: Panel saw
: 01/26
Re: Doing takeoffs from PDF floorplan
: 02/02
Re: ADA Clearances
: 02/03
Re: ADA Clearances
: 02/03
Re: ADA Clearances
: 02/07
Re: ADA Clearances
: 02/07
Re: ADA Clearances
: 02/07
Re: Shop van and or delivery truck revisited
: 02/09
Re: Router bit question
: 02/09
Re: Router bit question
: 02/09
Re: p-lam on drawer fronts
: 02/20
Re: p-lam on drawer fronts
: 02/20
Re: p-lam on drawer fronts
: 02/22
Re: Carving
: 03/01
Re: Carving
: 03/01
Re: Carving
: 03/02
Re: Carving
: 03/02
Re: Buffing or Radius Scraping
: 04/09
Re: Buffing or Radius Scraping
: 04/10
Re: HEPL. HELP, shopping for edgebander, Any input on a used Brandt KDF530?
: 04/14
Re: preglued edgebanding
: 04/21
Re: source for large range hood corbels?
: 06/14
Re: source for large range hood corbels?
: 06/14
Re: Need to find this unique knob
: 06/24
Re: Edge Bander Glue everywhere
: 07/01
Re: Edge Bander Glue everywhere
: 07/06
Re: Edge Bander Glue everywhere
: 07/06
Re: Toekick Construction Methods
: 08/05
Re: Toekick Construction Methods
: 08/08
Re: Toekick Construction Methods
: 08/08
Re: Toekick Construction Methods
: 08/09
Re: Once again appliance specs suck
: 08/05
Re: The need for outsourcing in the new economy
: 09/29
Re: The need for outsourcing in the new economy
: 09/30
Re: Headboard with curves.
: 10/12
Re: Frameless cabinet questions
: 12/07
Re: EUROPEAN CABINET BACK MATERIAL
: 01/07
Re: Looking for hot air edgebander tips
: 01/15
Re: Looking for hot air edgebander tips
: 01/15
Re: Holzher Edge Bander
: 02/28
Re: Always use metal
: 03/02
Re: Always use metal
: 03/02
Re: wine cabinet
: 03/12
Re: Swirl Marks in Unfinished Wood
: 03/14
Re: Furniture Grade End Panels
: 03/16
Re: Just wanted to say hey, I'm new to the group
: 03/24
Re: Long media cabinet top
: 03/27
Re: Long media cabinet top
: 03/27
Re: Long media cabinet top
: 03/27
Cold Press panels
: 03/30
Re: Cold Press panels
: 03/30
Re: Cold Press panels
: 03/30
Re: Cold Press panels
: 03/30
Re: Hafele concepta 25 retractable bifold door hardware
: 04/13
Re: 1mm White PVC Edgeband
: 04/16
Re: Enlarging hole for bigger led spot
: 04/26
Re: Hinge plates
: 06/20
Re: Hinge plates
: 06/20
Re: Forklift
: 06/24
Re: New used bander
: 08/06
Re: Need Computer Layout for Cabinets
: 10/10
Re: Bar Foot Rail
: 11/26
Re: Questions for shops that buy cabinet box components
: 11/29
Re: Questions for shops that buy cabinet box components
: 12/02
Re: Contemplating a cnc router
: 01/02
Re: Contemplating a cnc router
: 01/02
Re: Contemplating a cnc router
: 01/03
Re: Contemplating a cnc router
: 01/03
Re: Pricing Commercial Cabinet Refacing
: 02/03
Re: Shaker style cabinets
: 02/04
Re: Line boring or CNC boring
: 03/23
Re: Line boring or CNC boring
: 03/24
Re: Line boring or CNC boring
: 03/24
Re: barn doors on cabinet
: 04/04
Re: Dimension Drawings
: 05/06
Re: Dimension Drawings
: 05/07
Re: Dimension Drawings
: 05/07
Re: Dimension Drawings
: 05/07
Re: Outsource plywood processing
: 05/10
Re: wood cooler lid
: 06/23
Re: damage by other trades after delivery
: 11/08
Re: Digital Locks
: 12/06
Re: Range Hood Cabinet Duct Access
: 12/12
Re: Saw Stop
: 12/20
Re: Saw Stop
: 12/20
Re: Saw Stop
: 12/21
Re: Saw Stop
: 12/21
Re: Custom Shop Cabinets
: 01/03
Re: Custom Shop Cabinets
: 01/03
Re: Flip up hinges
: 01/11
Re: boring machine recommendation
: 01/17
Re: boring machine recommendation
: 01/17
Re: half round fluted wood column source
: 02/01
Re: Closet Cabinet Widths
: 02/09
Re: Knock-in insertion ram hinges
: 02/22
Re: Hot melt glue and glue guns
: 03/09
Re: Do any of you suffer from chronic golfers elbow
: 03/11
Re: Do any of you suffer from chronic golfers elbow
: 03/11
Re: Press-in hinge insertion without a press
: 04/10
Re: 3/4 overlay face frame hinge
: 05/01
Re: Venner or Solid?
: 05/12
Re: Anyone know the name of this machine?
: 05/17
Re: Sliding table saw vs CNC
: 05/27
Re: Sliding table saw vs CNC
: 05/28
Re: Sliding table saw vs CNC
: 05/29
Re: Does anyone have one of these?
: 06/14
Re: Does anyone have one of these?
: 06/14
Re: Does anyone have one of these?
: 06/14
Re: Looking for right pellet glue for formica with my edge bander
: 06/17
Re: Selco Mechanic Charlotte NC area
: 06/25
Re: Selco Mechanic Charlotte NC area
: 06/26
Re: Panel saw parts
: 07/04
Re: contact adhesive
: 07/23
Re: Festool Sanders
: 09/01
Re: Sheet goods cut list optimizers
: 10/06
Re: Edgebander glue issues
: 10/11
Re: Architecttural Drawings
: 10/16
Re: Concelled/Hidden Hinge Issue
: 11/04
Re: Shop clothing, pants/shirts
: 11/05
Re: Building custom cabinets
: 11/23
Re: Stiles Machinery
: 11/27
Re: Stiles Machinery
: 12/12
Re: Blum tandom vs grass dynapro
: 01/26
App measure tools
: 01/28
Re: App measure tools
: 01/28
Re: App measure tools
: 01/28
Re: Toekicks built separate from cabs?
: 02/13
Re: Millwork Drawing Interpretation
: 03/06
Re: COVID19: An Open Letter To Our Woodworking Partners
: 03/26
Re: hot air bander choices
: 04/18
Re: Hanging Acrylic Panels with no nails
: 05/14
Re: Cnc Purchase, Technical Questions
: 05/29
Re: (one man shop) Questions and Machinery Needed For a New Cabinet Shop
: 06/05
Re: (one man shop) Questions and Machinery Needed For a New Cabinet Shop
: 06/05
CAD Forum
Re: Decision about cad software
: 03/04
Re: Decision about cad software
: 03/07
Re: learning to draft- custom millwork
: 03/28
Re: 3d central models into cabinet vision 4.1
: 04/21
Re: cabnetware vs. cabinet vision
: 05/18
Re: cabnetware vs. cabinet vision
: 07/29
Re: cabnetware vs. cabinet vision
: 02/23
Re: Cabinet vision 2012 and windows 8
: 05/20
Re: Drawing programs for iPad
: 06/11
Re: CabinetPartsPro question
: 07/04
Re: How to find someone to do my drawings
: 08/05
Re: has anyone used cabnetware and gone to cabinet vision
: 09/14
Re: Breaking into Design
: 10/01
Re: Breaking into Design
: 10/02
Re: Breaking into Design
: 10/06
Re: convert to dxf file
: 10/16
Re: convert to dxf file
: 10/16
Re: Enchancing a .bmp image in Cabnetware
: 11/27
Re: Enchancing a .bmp image in Cabnetware
: 11/27
Re: Software for CNC
: 12/13
Re: Software for CNC
: 12/20
Re: Cabinet Software
: 12/21
Re: AutoCAD courses, fork in the road
: 12/22
Re: Sketch Up cabinet construction machining software
: 01/04
Re: Mozaik
: 01/07
Re: Mozaik
: 01/30
Re: Mozaik
: 02/01
Re: Mozaik
: 02/03
Re: Mozaik
: 07/09
Re: New laptop/software
: 02/04
Re: Mozaik Support
: 06/05
Re: Mozaik Support
: 06/07
Re: Mozaik Support
: 10/22
Re: KCD Software
: 08/07
Re: quick drawer front alignment
: 11/04
Re: UBC Logo
: 03/26
Re: Logo Toolpath
: 04/22
Re: Logo Toolpath
: 04/23
Re: Drawing Layouts On Floor - NEW CONSTRUCTION
: 08/13
Re: Mozaik
: 09/12
Re: cabnetware - user rights
: 10/28
Re: Cabinet Vision Graphics Problem
: 11/19
Re: Cabinet Vision Graphics Problem
: 12/01
Re: Cabinet Vision Graphics Problem
: 12/01
Re: Cabinet Vision Graphics Problem
: 01/13
Re: Cabinet Vision Graphics Problem
: 01/14
Re: Mozaik software
: 01/04
Re: DXF to cnc
: 01/08
Re: DXF to cnc
: 01/08
Re: 20/20 design USB key problems
: 02/05
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 04/27
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 04/27
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 09/28
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 09/28
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 11/24
Re: The Death Of CabnetWare
: 03/01
Re: Minimum depth for home theater cabinet?
: 07/30
Re: 3d dxf models
: 10/14
Re: ArtCAM 2017
: 10/21
Re: Sketchup to V-Carve Pro
: 12/29
Re: CV9 Video Card
: 02/22
Re: CAD v. Vetrixc software?
: 03/14
Re: Curved crown molding.
: 09/30
Re: Curved crown molding.
: 09/30
Re: Curved crown molding.
: 09/30
Re: 3D Model for Carving Required
: 11/22
Re: Which is the best free software for generating CNC part program?
: 01/24
Re: Find some qualified help
: 04/04
Re: V Carve and Automation
: 06/18
Re: Adding Texture to .STL file
: 06/23
Re: V Carve Programmer Needed
: 07/04
Re: Import V carve desktop models into Alphacam
: 12/12
Re: DWG templets for cabinet accessories
: 01/18
Re: VCARVE CONVERSION
: 09/20
Re: VCARVE CONVERSION
: 09/20
Re: CADdirect
: 11/28
Re: CADdirect
: 11/29
Re: Software for non-CNC shops
: 04/07
Re: CabinetVision VS Mozaik
: 05/27
Re: CabinetVision VS Mozaik
: 06/09
CNC Forum
Re: Will cnc get me out of the woods?
: 04/19
Re: Will cnc get me out of the woods?
: 04/19
Re: Will cnc get me out of the woods?
: 04/19
Re: Will cnc get me out of the woods?
: 04/20
Re: Entry level CNC
: 05/29
Re: Entry level CNC
: 05/29
Re: Entry level CNC
: 06/03
Re: Entry level CNC
: 06/18
Re: Entry level CNC
: 06/19
Re: Entry level CNC
: 06/19
Re: Entry level CNC
: 06/24
Biesse 13s Even Me !
: 07/02
Re: Biesse 13s Even Me !
: 07/02
Re: Biesse 13s Even Me !
: 07/02
Re: Biesse 13s Even Me !
: 07/04
Re: Biesse 13s Even Me !
: 07/08
Re: compucarve
: 07/08
Re: Bringing in a cnc
: 07/25
Re: Bringing in a cnc
: 07/25
Re: CNC Training
: 07/26
Re: New CNC
: 07/27
Re: New CNC
: 07/29
Re: New CNC
: 08/05
Re: Source HSK63F tool forks
: 07/29
Re: Source HSK63F tool forks
: 07/29
Re: Biesse Errors
: 08/16
Re: X and Y axis
: 08/21
Re: X and Y axis
: 08/21
Re: X and Y axis
: 08/22
Re: X and Y axis
: 09/03
Re: Pulled the Trigger!
: 08/28
Re: Pulled the Trigger!
: 08/28
Re: Aborted X left axis switch low error
: 08/31
Re: CNC equipment advise
: 09/18
Re: CNC equipment advise
: 09/19
Re: CNC equipment advise
: 09/20
Re: Multicam 3000
: 09/20
Re: CNC Schematics
: 10/01
Re: CNC Schematics
: 10/01
Re: CNC Woodturning
: 10/06
Re: Vacuum not enough?
: 10/08
Re: Ducting to New CNC
: 10/23
Re: Second Vac on New CNC
: 10/23
Re: CNC bit questions?
: 11/02
Re: CNC bit questions?
: 11/02
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/21
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/21
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/21
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/21
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/21
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/23
Re: Entry Level CNC machines
: 11/24
Re: Cutting aluminum
: 11/23
Re: Cutting aluminum
: 11/23
Re: Cutting aluminum
: 11/23
Re: Cutting aluminum
: 11/23
Re: Software for Corbels & Legs
: 11/23
Re: Software for Corbels & Legs
: 11/23
Re: Software for Corbels & Legs
: 11/26
Re: inexpensive cnc
: 12/09
Re: SCM owners
: 02/27
Re: SCM owners
: 02/27
Re: CNC-- range of use (and artistry)
: 04/04
Re: CNC-- range of use (and artistry)
: 04/06
Re: CNC-- range of use (and artistry)
: 04/07
Need a review
: 04/03
Re: Need a review
: 04/04
Re: Pen attachments for CNC
: 04/19
Re: Pen attachments for CNC
: 04/19
Re: Hearing loss and CNC machines
: 10/05
Re: High school CNC
: 04/27
Re: Felder Format CNC
: 05/23
Re: Felder Format CNC
: 05/23
Re: Vcarve and Weeke
: 06/27
Re: cncfactory
: 07/23
Re: Mitred Boxes
: 07/23
Re: Mitred Boxes
: 07/23
Re: Mitred Boxes
: 07/23
Re: Mitred Boxes
: 07/23
Re: CNT Motion Series 1000 CNC Router
: 07/28
Re: CNT Motion Series 1000 CNC Router
: 09/20
Re: CNT Motion Series 1000 CNC Router
: 09/21
Re: Aspire Biesse post processor
: 08/09
Re: Aspire Biesse post processor
: 08/09
Re: Aspire Biesse post processor
: 08/10
Re: Best bit for routed holes?
: 09/02
Re: Advice for custom shops new CNC purchase
: 09/18
Re: Advice for custom shops new CNC purchase
: 09/18
Re: Negatives about these CNC brands
: 10/07
Re: Negatives about these CNC brands
: 10/08
Re: CNC Self Test
: 10/07
Re: Boss Router
: 10/28
Re: Prismatic letters
: 11/04
Re: Prismatic letters
: 11/04
Re: Bacci Smart or ?
: 11/04
Re: Bacci Smart or ?
: 11/04
Re: Bacci Smart or ?
: 11/04
Re: Bacci Smart or ?
: 11/04
Re: Bacci Smart or ?
: 11/05
Re: Decision about CNC
: 11/06
Re: Determining Vacuum Holddown
: 11/17
Re: Determining Vacuum Holddown
: 11/17
Re: Determining Vacuum Holddown
: 11/22
Re: Determining Vacuum Holddown
: 11/22
Re: Aspire and SCM Routech Record
: 12/02
Re: Aspire and SCM Routech Record
: 12/02
Re: Routing small parts in solid wood
: 12/20
Re: Smaller CNC router choices, dedicated for small wood components
: 12/24
Re: Smaller CNC router choices, dedicated for small wood components
: 12/24
Re: Smaller CNC router choices, dedicated for small wood components
: 12/27
Re: Smaller CNC router choices, dedicated for small wood components
: 12/27
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/09
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/09
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/09
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/09
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/10
Re: Replicating wood carvings on cnc
: 01/11
Re: 3D CNC Machining
: 01/15
Re: 3D CNC Machining
: 01/15
Re: 5 piece cabinet doors on a nesting CNC
: 01/29
Re: Vacuum Rotating Wrong
: 02/05
Re: In general terms is a one man shop wasting their time with CNC
: 02/09
Re: In general terms is a one man shop wasting their time with CNC
: 02/09
Re: First cnc (hopefully)
: 02/11
Re: tooling for cabinet parts
: 02/24
Re: Laminate with steel
: 02/25
Re: Stiles Machinery Technical Support
: 03/05
Re: Auto tool measure and large fly cutters
: 03/20
Re: Looking for CNC advice
: 04/01
Re: Looking for CNC advice
: 04/01
Re: Dekker Vacuum Pumps
: 04/30
Re: WinCNC , Tracking sheet count per bit, possible?
: 04/30
Re: WinCNC , Tracking sheet count per bit, possible?
: 05/02
Re: Beam saw vs flat table
: 06/03
Re: CNC job cart
: 06/18
Re: Nesting Cnc router question
: 06/30
Re: Buying a CNC machine
: 08/27
Re: Buying a CNC machine
: 08/27
Re: 3d wall panel question
: 08/28
Re: 3d wall panel question
: 09/05
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: Texture Panels, MDF, and Sanding
: 09/03
Re: CNC Outsourcing Help
: 09/07
Re: 5x10 or 4x8? Off feed table?
: 09/11
Re: Unattended
: 09/14
Re: Unattended
: 09/15
Re: Material suggestions for carving
: 09/16
Re: CNC for carving projects
: 10/17
Re: CNC for carving projects
: 10/17
Re: Computer specifications
: 11/19
Re: Computer specifications
: 11/19
Re: Small parts moving
: 11/26
Re: vacuum hose
: 12/28
Re: Mitering with CNC router
: 02/03
Re: CNC Starter Setup
: 02/15
Re: Vac Table Grid Pattern - What's Optimal?
: 02/15
Re: Vac Table - SQUARES with grooved relief more Vac Power?
: 02/16
Re: Digital device on the machine?
: 03/14
Re: Retrofit ATC
: 04/14
Re: MDF mullion doors
: 04/14
Re: Weeke Tech
: 06/07
Re: Powermatic CNC
: 07/31
Re: Aluminum
: 08/06
Re: Masterwood Prima CNC
: 09/08
Re: How Large A Circle?
: 11/02
Re: Format 4 Nesting CNC
: 12/21
Re: CNC recommendation for school
: 12/23
Re: Aspire Training
: 01/30
Re: Aspire Training
: 01/30
ASPIRE CAMP 2018 AT MCGREWS
: 03/24
Re: ASPIRE CAMP 2018 AT MCGREWS
: 03/24
Re: ASPIRE CAMP 2018 AT MCGREWS
: 03/25
Re: 3d printing slightly thin curved walls.
: 05/01
Re: 3d printing slightly thin curved walls.
: 05/22
Re: New to CNC need your thoughts
: 06/16
Re: New to CNC need your thoughts
: 06/19
Re: CNC Router Suggestions
: 06/20
Re: CNC Router Suggestions
: 06/20
Re: CNC
: 06/28
Re: CNC
: 06/29
Re: CNC
: 06/29
Re: Advice on a CNC for cutting internal threads
: 07/13
Re: Advice on a CNC for cutting internal threads
: 07/13
Re: Advice on a CNC for cutting internal threads
: 07/13
Re: spoil board
: 07/28
Re: Shop Sabre CNC Routers
: 09/22
Re: 5x10 Nested base routers for 40K-60K range
: 10/25
Re: 5x10 Nested base routers for 40K-60K range
: 10/25
Re: Which size CNC to get
: 11/08
Re: Which size CNC to get
: 11/08
Re: Which size CNC to get
: 11/08
Re: Which size CNC to get
: 11/15
Re: cutting formica sheets
: 11/24
Re: Northwood CNC Computer
: 12/29
CNC delivery
: 01/11
Re: I must be a total duh!
: 01/17
Re: I must be a total duh!
: 01/17
Re: Tips of production
: 01/19
Re: Tips of production
: 01/19
Re: Should I consider CNC
: 03/16
Re: Should I consider CNC
: 03/21
Re: Newbie looking for advice
: 03/31
Re: Newbie looking for advice
: 04/03
Re: CNC Router
: 04/05
Re: CNC Router
: 04/19
Re: CNC Router
: 04/22
Re: PVC DUST STATIC
: 04/11
Re: PVC DUST STATIC
: 04/13
Re: CNC-Cart
: 05/25
Re: sound enclosure for 10 hp siemens vacuum pump
: 07/26
Re: CHINESE JCUT CNC ROUTER MACHINE
: 10/02
Re: Entry-level CNC for Small (1-2 man) Shop
: 11/11
Re: Entry-level CNC for Small (1-2 man) Shop
: 11/11
Re: Entry-level CNC for Small (1-2 man) Shop
: 11/19
Re: Metric router bits
: 12/11
Re: Optimizing software
: 01/04
Re: Rangerboard MDF changing shape after cut?
: 02/28
Re: SCM Pratix and V Carve Question
: 03/01
Re: spoilboard
: 03/15
Re: Mach3 Settup & support
: 04/06
Re: Mozaik versus CabinetVision
: 06/16
Re: Mozaik versus CabinetVision
: 06/17
Re: CNC worth the investment? What's the best option?
: 06/19
Re: CNC worth the investment? What's the best option?
: 06/19
Re: CNC worth the investment? What's the best option?
: 06/20
Re: right bit for acrylic
: 06/20
Re: Thank you all for teaching me
: 06/20
Finishing Forum
Re: Tinted lacquer finish
: 01/11
Re: Finish recommendations for Civilians.
: 12/28
Cabinet and Millwork Installation Forum
Re: Slat Walls -What to Charge
: 05/30
Re: huge mistake with heavy bar over floating floor.
: 07/13
Re: huge mistake with heavy bar over floating floor.
: 07/15
Re: Miter saw review
: 12/09
Re: Engineered Flooring
: 03/04
Re: Habersham Install?
: 04/30
Re: Wolf Warming Drawer - Wood Cabinet Drawer Front
: 04/15
Re: Floating a ceiling
: 08/17
Re: Floating a ceiling
: 08/17
Re: Floating cabinets in steel stud walls
: 09/27
Re: Back splashes popping off everywhere!
: 11/06
Re: False Cabinet Face Issue
: 11/13
Re: False Cabinet Face Issue
: 11/13
Re: invisible panel clips
: 05/08
Re: invisible panel clips
: 05/08
Re: invisible panel clips
: 05/08
Re: Wall panel installation
: 09/26
Re: Wall panel installation
: 09/26
Re: Wall panel installation
: 09/27
Re: Wall panel installation
: 09/27
Re: Floating cabinet on porcelain tile wall issue
: 09/21
Re: Restaurant Vanity
: 10/17
Re: Restaurant Vanity
: 10/24
Re: best laser levels
: 11/21
Re: Attaching floor to ceiling panels to wall
: 11/26
Re: Attaching floor to ceiling panels to wall
: 12/09
Re: Detached toe kicks
: 07/06
Re: Detached toe kicks
: 07/06
Re: Cabinet installation
: 03/03
Re: AutoCAD
: 11/07
Re: Cabinet install before flooring
: 12/16
Re: Cabinets
: 01/17
Re: Outlet Behind Drawers
: 05/05
Re: Outlet Behind Drawers
: 05/06
Re: Dust Caps in Medical Facilities
: 06/20
Re: Dust Caps in Medical Facilities
: 06/21
Re: Dust Caps in Medical Facilities
: 06/21
Re: Diewall Install methods
: 05/29
Solid Wood Machining Forum
Brandt KD 53-54 Manual
: 12/09
WOODnetWORK Forum
Re: Salt water
: 04/21
Re: Salt water
: 04/21
Aspire and Cabinetry
: 10/25/09
aspire and rotary axis
: 11/04/09
USC World Series NCAA Trophies
: 07/10/11
Aspire Camp at McGrews
: 03/08/12
Krispy Kreme Cruiser
: 06/24/12
CNC Sculpted Panel Wall
: 08/24/14
Accessories and Gifts - General
Architectural Millwork - Custom Millwork
Architectural Millwork - General
Architectural Millwork - Lathe Turning
Architectural Millwork - Millwork Installer
Architectural Millwork - Millwork Restoration
Architectural Millwork - Moldings
CNC Services - General
Cabinets - Cabinet Designers
Cabinets - Cabinet Installers
Cabinets - Closets and Storage
Cabinets - Commercial Cabinets
Cabinets - Components
Cabinets - Custom Cabinets
Cabinets - General
Cabinets - Kitchen & Bath Cabinets
Cabinets - Residential Cabinetry
Cabinets - Store Fixtures
Carving - Architectural Ornamentation
Carving - General
Finishing - General Wood Finishing
Finishing - Refinishing
Veneer and Marquetry - General
Woodworking - General
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3/18
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3/18
3/18
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3/18
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I'd say your only option is to go into damage control mode immediately and salt away all you can or get ready to apply for the SBA's Economic Injury Disaster Loans. We received the emails with the polls yesterday that the SBA is going to be using to gauge benefits. The hard part is I may have no injury at the moment but I have no idea what 2 weeks, a month, two months, will be like.
3/18
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3/18
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3/18
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3/18
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3/18
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3/18
3/18
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3/18
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3/18
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3/18
1929-39 most likely (50% chance my opinion)
a complete global monetary reset. It will be sold as a jubilee but will end up being a one world global currency prison (25% chance my opinion)
3/19
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3/19
3/19
3/19
Member
-The seasonal strain of the flu kills 650,000 people globally each year.
-Mosquitos kill about 700,000 people per year. (the earth's most dangerous animal)
-Conflicts and battle take roughly 125,000 per year.
-Automobile accidents account for about 1.2m per year.
One site I looked at said in 2017, 56 million people died globally. I didn't care about that number, and if you're honest with yourself, neither did you.
h
3/19
Member
3/19
life. I‘m one of the few that has odds stacked against me
3/19
You said exactly what I've been thinking. The underlying assumption behind "flattening the curve" is that our society has a responsibility to treat every 80 year old who gets infected. We all need to question that assumption. Because what we are doing now is potentially devastating the lives of millions of young, healthy people in order to treat (not necessarily to save) really old, sick people who may only have another year or two left anyway lying in a nursing home bed.
3/19
3/20
I wish you all the luck. To me, my family, especially my parents, and children and all my friends and their family’s are far more important than chasing the almighty dollar.
3/20
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3/20
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3/20
3/20
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3/20
Thats as a dishonest of take on the mortality rate as it comes. Because not everyone is yet cured and some still could become sick. You are way to premature to calculate this by a LONG shot.
3/20
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3/21
I'm in Newfoundland 1 case but were shutting down still can go to home depot and McFadden .
3/21
Member
This go round tradesman won't be the worst hit.
3/21
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3/22
3/22
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3/22
3/22
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3/23
TonyF
3/23
I guess if foolish tradesman are willing to pay their inflated prices, nothing will change.
3/23
3/23
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3/23
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3/23
construction sites and construction projects (including housing construction)
.pdf
3/23
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3/23
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3/23
I never thought the n95 was for medical use either. As a matter of fact, I was led to believe no mask was better when it came to viruses. Silly me.
3/23
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3/23
3/24
- Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
3/24
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