Message Thread:
Murphy bed
9/19/19
I've had two requests for murphy beds for upcoming jobs. I've been asked in the past about these but none of those projects came about and not something I pursued. I can't avoid these any longer.
I'm curious how tall, deep and wide to allow and anything I should be aware of as someone who hasn't touched this kind of hardware before.
Like most things it probably isn't all that difficult once you figure out the hardware, but that is where I'm at a loss. There seems to be a bunch of different types and costs out there. Anyone have recommendations? Both projects are for full mattresses folding up at the head of the bed.
9/19/19 #2: Murphy bed ...
We did one a couple of years ago. Used "Murphy Bed Company" hardware. Worked well and instructions were point on. Plans available from them.
9/19/19 #4: Murphy bed ...
Wrong picture of previous two
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9/19/19 #5: Murphy bed ...
Pat, Very helpful Video thanks. Do you know what type/brand of Hardware he had in there?
9/19/19 #6: Murphy bed ...
Wall bed hardware
Wall bed hardware
9/20/19 #7: Murphy bed ...
SteveL
Take a look at this company. I have seen them at the IWF a few times and have used some of their hardware. Never a murphy mechanism though.
https://www.selbyhardware.com/
9/20/19 #8: Murphy bed ...
Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM
A Murphy bed was something I had wanted to do for a long time and last year, we got a chance to do one. I got my hardware from Create-A-Bed and they have layouts and drawings with their hardware. Since the first one, we have done two more and I have another on the shop floor now.
In their directions, they say to follow their directions exactly and we did on the first one. But, their directions call for a depth of only 16" finished and we needed to go deeper on the next ones. We just added to the additional depth to the wall sides and the top header and built a headboard with a return ledge. This actually made it better because we put an slight angle on the headboard in case someone wanted to sit up in bed to read. I found their hole sizes to be a little too tight. Where it calls for a 1/4" or 5/8" or 1" hole, I added a 1/16" of an inch.
Create-A-Bed has a new adjustable lift mechanism and I have been using these after the first one and I find it easier to install. The only issue I have found is that the sides really need some support, a cabinet or wall. Also, the toe kick is really low and on one of the panels fronts, we had to put a bevel on the bottom for the front to be able to come down without hitting the toe board.
The first one we did, I bid at $5,600. This had a bed with two full high stands or cabinets, one on each side. I felt after the job that this was too low and I have been getting about $7,800 for similar ones since.
There are two different ways of supporting the bed when it comes down. You have the swing over the bed metal legs and you can also have legs that flip out. We have done both ways. The metal legs swing over the bottom of the bed is easier.
I will post some pictures later. I need help to do that. I think there is a demand for these beds. We cut our parts on a CNC and I was surprised that Create-A-Bed did not have a file to download for this, but its not too hard to make file.
Be aware, you will have to add lights and on one, we put in a Data center plug. The hardest part about adding the light was to locate the switch. When the bed folds up, there is only about 1/8" between the bed frame and the side wall. We have used a remote controlled switch sold by Hafele.
You will have to do a little thinking, but not really that difficult. I hope this helps.
9/20/19 #9: Murphy bed ...
I have used both Murphy Bed and Create a Bed , liked the Create a Bed hardware over Murphy. just follow their instructions.
Ed
9/20/19 #10: Murphy bed ...
Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM
A couple of pictures of Murphy Beds
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9/20/19 #11: Murphy bed ...
Another picture. This bed has the fold down legs.
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9/20/19 #12: Murphy bed ...
I think the SICO hardware is the best one but the one company I linked is a fraction of the cost.
Neither one have much adjustment to align the front panels though.
9/20/19 #13: Murphy bed ...
I've done quite a few Murphy beds, and used several types of hardware. The one I like the best is the Pardo brand, which is distributed by Selby, Wurth Louis, and others. It has good adjustment for the front panel reveals and tension to compensate for the weight of the mattress, which can vary widely. I use their inside mount mechanism, which is completely concealed by the frame attached to the door panel. I've used these for 20 years and never had a call back.
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9/21/19 #14: Murphy bed ...
Good information, Thanks.
I see most have a wood frame around the bed. My question is if using a type of hardware that has no bed frame with it, what type of support is needed for the middle? Do you just span it with plywood and mount the doors to that, or should there be something more substantial?
9/21/19 #15: Murphy bed ...
This one screws directly to the panels
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9/23/19 #16: Murphy bed ...
I have made several wall beds. The first ones we used Create a Bed, never again. Too hokey. I liked Selby's hardware. Programmed it in the CNC, they moved the holes. Later, Louis & Co changed the price (up). A week ago I tried a set from Rockler. This one has a metal frame and wood slats that support the mattress. It's good idea because the mattress can "breathe" but the wood slat connection is made using a plastic cup pushed into holes. Don't know how long they will last. It did use ball bearings as the pivot. There is no adjustment for square? Well, anyway it wasn't a bad set of hardware.
I can build a 60" x 80" platform (it's actually larger for hardware) easy enough this issue is getting it up stairs at the jobsite in one piece. WAY too heavy. The Rockler used a metal frame with the front panels attached after installation. The rub there is they need to be removed (about 30 screws) if you want to get the bed frame off the cabinet or if the piston would need replacing down the road. Who thought of that? The Selby hardware was easily removed from the cabinet after installation and was adjustable for weight and square but the bed frame was just too heavy.
Every piece of hardware has it's weak and strong points. Too bad we can't get all the strong points in one unit. A combination of several units would be good. I followed Rockler's instruction, easy enough but in doing so I used five sheets of plywood because of having to clear a foundation wall. Now that was well engineered, not.
When you get all done it's difficult to see why these beds cost so much, there isn't much there. They just do.
9/24/19 #17: Murphy bed ...
Over the past few years, in my spare time, I have researched Murphy/Wall bed hardware quite extensively in the hopes of integrating them into my current business. It seems like that the adjustable Create-A-Bed hardware or the Selby Pardo system would be the best fit for me.
I like how the CAB system has an easily accessible mechanism for adjustment and would be very convenient for the end user (customer) to deal with in the future with mattress changes. Although the visible hardware (pistons) really turns me off.
Bruce H, could you please tell us what you found hokey about the Create-A-Bed system.
The Pardo hardware also looks really nice, especially the hidden system. I have experience with the visible installation, where my client had one installed a few years earlier by a cabinetmaker who failed to return to adjust it for the weight of the mattress! I adjusted it for them and it was a 2 person procedure, which is a big turn off. I can only imagine how challenging the hidden system would be.
duster, I have seen your beautiful work several times in the past. Can you share your experience with adjusting the hidden Pardo system?
Do any of these systems allow for a single person install?
Thanks for everyone’s input.
Mark
9/24/19 #18: Murphy bed ...
The create a bed hardware and instructions were something for a homeowner. The latching system used a string and a cheap cabinet hing that also made the support leg. Given the way they did the bed platform there is no way one person can do the install.
The Selby system was nice except the bed platform was too heavy to pack upstairs and not something I wanted to assemble on the job site. Other than that the spring mechanism was deluxe. It was easily adjustable for mattress weight and for square. The last time I wanted one Louis and Co jacked the price to five hundred dollars. Way too much for just a spring.
9/24/19 #19: Murphy bed ...
Bruce H,
Thank you for the additional information. From your description, I think that you used the least expensive hardware that they have and I agree, from what I have seen, it does look cheesy from a pro’s point of view. Have you seen the video of the adjustable hardware? The main differences are no latches, the leg assembly is better and the ability to easily adjust for different weight mattress.
Mark
Create-A-Bed Adj. Deluxe Murphy Bed Kit
9/24/19 #20: Murphy bed ...
I looked at your link and then at the build video on you tube. Still too hokey for me. It is a do-it-yourself kit. Taking the whole thing off the wall to install the struts doesn't seem like it was well thought out. Couldn't tell if the kit with the adjustable strut if you had to take it off the wall or not. There isn't a perfect kit, guess you just need to pick the level of pain to work with. My concern with the on from Rockler is how long will it last? The Selby is adjustable after it is installed. Why not all the details on one kit?
9/24/19 #21: Murphy bed ...
The Pardo mechanism is adjusted by turning a fairly large hex bolt on the end of the unit. I use a large end wrench. I leave an access hole in the deck the mattress lays on so it can be tightened without removing the 1/4 ply panel.
I agree with Bruce that the door panel/mattress deck is heavy, difficult to move, and kind of a pain to assemble into the cabinet. It takes a minimum of 2 strong guys to get it into the cabinet. We sometimes leave the hardware and deck off until it's in the room to make it a little lighter.
All that being said, I still like the Pardo mechanism better.
9/25/19 #22: Murphy bed ...
Bruce,
The Rockler hardware (not the bed frame) seems to be very similar to the CAB hardware in that they both use gas pistons, but to me the CAB looks “cleaner” in the final installation as there is no massive metal bracket on the side panels and it is adjustable. Also, I believe Rockler had a recall on the hardware and it is (or was) often out of stock in the queen size. That said, this hardware does definitely have some good benefits and I will look into it further.
Mark
9/25/19 #23: Murphy bed ...
duster,
When I worked on the “visible” Pardo hardware installation, the bed needed to be held at 15-20° from vertical to make the tension adjustments. While my petite, female client held the very heavy bed the correct position, I ran back and forth making equal turns on the mechanism to balance the bed out. When looking at the hidden installation, it seems like it would be much more difficult because you have the box side in the way and the mattress on top which would need to be moved out of the way. Am I missing something here?
Mark
9/25/19 #24: Murphy bed ...
We make about 6 Murphy beds a year and use the CAB hardware for the main reason that I can install a bed by myself.
Once all the components are in the room it takes me about a hour to assemble the bed. The only part that is already assembled is the bed sub frame. I did try having the panels attached once and it was back breaking work getting it into the house with 2 people.
I also use the adjustable deluxe hardware and find that at its price point it offers the best value. I've often thought of using the Selby's hardware kit but find it too expensive.
Its interesting that after about 50 beds I have had only 2 clients that disliked the idea of seeing the pistons, that they insisted on a hidden spring system.
9/25/19 #25: Murphy bed ...
Mark - I've always done the tension adjustments with the bed all the way down. I'm not sure why you'd have to hold the bed up to do it. You do have to slide the mattress down about 2 feet to reach the access holes I use, but you don't have to completely remove the mattress.
9/25/19 #26: Murphy bed ...
Richard
Is this the hardware you use?
If so what do you do differently to install the bed by yourself?
Do you have any call backs on the gas piston?
Thanks for the input
CAB bed install
9/25/19 #27: Murphy bed ...
Pat,
This is the hardware I use :https://www.createabed.com/product-page/adjustable-deluxe-mechanism
If you call them direct you can get discounts on multiple orders.
I use lamello Clamex P for all my joints and also include a 3/4" bottom component similar to the header which strengthens the box quite a bit.
My install is quite similar to the video with some key differences.
I keep the face pieces separate, much easier to carry and just butt them together with no pocket screws.
I assemble the bed in a similar fashion to the video but keep it around 20" from the wall that its going on. I also cut out the base board on the wall rather than notch the uprights.
I don't attach the legs or 1/4" ply for the mattress at this point as he did in the video.
Once the bed frame and cabinet is built around it I attach the bottom of the pistons to the bed frame at this point and then lift the cabinet vertically so it ends up a couple of inches from the wall.
I now lift the bed frame vertical and allow it to go into the cabinet a few inches as shown in the video.
At this point with a hand on the bed face to steady it, I use my other hand to pull the cabinet out from the wall just enough to get my arm around the back.
Since the pistons are already attached at the bottom they are easy to reach for and attach to the upper anchor point. Pushing the bed face in or out at this stage will get the pistons so they click in easily.
The other side is the same but a little easier since you are not supporting the bed face as much.
I push the whole unit against the wall, square everything up and screw to the wall.
At this point the bed face is still leaning into the cabinet a few inches. I make sure I have all the remaining parts and tools within reach.
I mark and drill for the handles. I use one of those handle holes to put a temporary long screw into which I can use to pull down the bed face. Holding the face at a angle I'm able to put the legs on and screw on the handles.
I lower the bed face all the way and having my tool boxes close by I put them on top to act as a counter weight giving me time to attach the bed stops on the vertical pieces and apply the 2 1/4" ply pieces for the mattress.
As I mentioned earlier, the whole assemble takes just over a hour and at 55 years old I'm no longer interested in being the fastest!
I have never had a call back for the pistons or any of the hardware.
I have moved some of my early Murphy beds for clients when they move house and the beds look and work exactly as the day I originally installed them.
9/25/19 #28: Murphy bed ...
Thanks Richard that was helpful
9/25/19 #29: Murphy bed ...
duster,
In Selby's instructions, they say in bold red type (including misspelling),
"Do not attemp to adjust the tension with the door panel in the full open position!"
They also mention it elsewhere on their website and this has been a major negative for me.
Mark
9/25/19 #30: Murphy bed ...
Richard,
I will echo Pat...
Extremely helpful. Thanks for sharing your methods.
Mark
6/4/21 #31: Murphy bed ...
Website: https://cabinetbeds.com
Check out this company. They have high quality products.
https://cabinetbeds.com
10/27/21 #32: Murphy bed ...
Used to own a murphy bed for around 20 years. They are a great way to save space, however, once we moved I decided to invest in a cabinet murphy bed. They can run fairly expensive but are worth the extra money in my opinion.
Cabinet Beds
10/28/21 #33: Murphy bed ...
Mark V, the Create a Bed hardware as Richard showed is not the hardware I disliked. His must be a newer version and it looks much better than what I used. Next time I do a bed I'll look into it.
Paul Miller listed what he though costs were and I agree. They just can't built on the cheap. You'd think something so simple might be done for fifteen hundred or so.
11/15/21 #34: Murphy bed ...
I also did one few years ago. Used "Murphy Bed Company" hardware. Beleive me, it worked well and instructions were point on. Plans available from them.
6/14/22 #35: Murphy bed ...
My husband and I are in the process of moving. We are looking to build our own murphy bed with storage drawers. It will be used as a guest bed but will leave us enough space for a little office when the bed is not in use. Does anyone have any recommendations for a murphy bed kit that also includes storage drawers?
12/15/22 #36: Murphy bed ...
Website: https://bedfolds.com
Love murphy beds. There are also other solutions you can look at that allow you to maximize your space. This site has some great options. https://bedfolds.com/products/brussels-ash-creden-zzz-cabinet-bed
https://bedfolds.com/products/
2/26/23 #38: Murphy bed ...
Website: https://murphybedsupply.com/product-category/pembe...
The cabinet murphy beds are certainly interesting but I just love the look of the Pemberly Row murphy bed
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