Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Wood Supply\Selection

3/19/17       
Vince Member

Remodeling is my first profession, but my direction is heading towards building custom cabinetry out of my small (spraying room equipped) home shop.
I am preparing to build my first stain-grade kitchen. Having built only painted (pigmented laquer, pigmented cv) cabinets, I am eager to hear any important points regarding wood selection\sourcing.

The project will have shaker flat panel doors built in hard maple. The color is to be a medium-darkness brown\orange. I use Sherwin Williams finishes, and plan on the following finish schedule for these:
-sand to 150
-spray dye stain
-wash coat
-light sand 320 (or should it be scuff with maroon scotchbrite?)
-BAC wiping stain
-1 coat CV
-Scuff grey scotchbrite
-Toner coat(s)
-2 coats CV

With the painted cabinets, I used flat sawn soft maple, with the quarter\rift sawn edges as rails and stiles.. the left over flat sawn center of most boards ended up as the panels. Is this as much as is done for clear projects?

Also, I talked with a local wood supplier regarding their hard maple. They make baseball bats, and use the reject logs (not straight enough to split) for hard maple lumber. Is this a good thing, or bad thing given my needs for an aesthetically pleasing product? I would think it may be good as far as how clear the wood is, but possibly bad given that they are rejected due to grain. He said that hard maple is hard maple.. is this true?

3/19/17       #2: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Spicolli

I can't speak to your finishing schedule but I would recommend you stick with soft maple. Soft maple is certainly durable enough for cabinet components and much easier to work with then hard maple. Hard maple is harder on tooling and abrasives without any added benefit in this application. I wish I would have asked the same question prior to building my first kitchen out of hard maple. I have since switched to soft and have been much happier throughout the construction process.

3/19/17       #3: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Vince

I thought that hard maple would offer less color variation board to board.

I love soft maple for paint grade..

3/19/17       #4: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Larry

Your finishing schedule is fine. We usually wash coat, scuff, first so the stain takes more uniformly. Hard maple often has some wild grain that looks neat to a woodworker (depends on the customer's point of view) but is more prone to chip-out in machining. The heart wood is darker than the sap wood. It will some times have dark mineral streaks that need to be cut around. They are really hard and will damage tooling. My favorite maple is called Red Maple. It is a soft maple but nearly as hard as hard maple and easier to machine, almost never see mineral streaks in it.

3/19/17       #5: Wood Supply\Selection ...
D Brown

Ask your lumber supplier for Select White Soft Maple if they have it .

3/19/17       #6: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Vince

Thanks for your input, guys.

This is a little surprising to me..

I had just assumed that to get high-end results from stained maple, that hard, white maple was the only serious approach. It's starting to seem like soft is preferred. I will look into the "soft-select".

I have not heard anyone's opinion on the fact that the hard maple currently offered to me is milled from baseball bat reject logs..

3/20/17       #7: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Paul Miller

Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM

You don't say if you are buying your doors or planning on making them. From the description of your shop, I would definitely order the doors. There are plenty of good cabinet door suppliers.

I am not sure what "CV" stands for. Does this represent a conversion varnish? I don't use anything but pre-catalyzed lacquer. By far, the best finish for the small shop. Dries fast and easy to repair.

I would only use Hard Maple and I would find out where the mill shops in your area buy their lumber and buy mine from the same source.

Be careful staining maple. It can come out blotchy. Do plenty of samples and keep the approved sample in front of you while you are finishing. If you want a dark stain on Maple, you usually have to stain it twice with a light stain.

I only use Soft Maple for paint grade.

Good Luck

Paul

3/20/17       #8: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Larry

"Be careful staining maple. It can come out blotchy."
That's why you wash coat first!
Why are you so sure that Red Maple is inferior to hard? (Implied by "only use hard.")

3/20/17       #9: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Vince

Paul, I like making doors. Attached is a photo of the last kitchen I built and finished in my 12'x20' shop. Why should I have someone else make them?

I had been using pre-catalyzed lacquer, but kept reading that conversion varnish is more durable. My last project was finished with it (photo of vanity and mirrors also attached).

I think finding out where other shops get their lumber is a great idea. I will keep that in mind.

As far as blotchy-ness goes, I plan on dealing with that through the lengthy finishing schedule I posted above. I tend to over-worry, and samples will need to be reliable before I even start jointing the lumber.

I have noticed the red maple while building these paint-grade cabinets. It is hard, but not as light as I would prefer. I like the idea of getting hard maple FAS, knowing that it will all come closer to the same color.


View higher quality, full size image (3448 X 2592)


View higher quality, full size image (1728 X 2304)


View higher quality, full size image (2568 X 3464)

3/20/17       #10: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Vince

Here is a relatively informative company write-up on hard vs soft..

https://taylorcraftdoor.com/differences-hard-maple-soft-maple-cabinet-do
ors/

If I were the customer, I would want hard. Less prone to denting and scratching I would assume.

3/21/17       #11: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Paul Miller

I have a 12,000 sq ft shop with almost every tool you can name. But, most times, I still order doors. The cabinet door companies are so automated that you really cannot make money making doors unless you have a large job or not enough work in your shop. My experience is better overall quality and delivery when you want it. The only real negative is that when we make our own doors and there is a stain or solid color, we stain or paint the edge of the inset panel before we assemble the door. This prevents an edge of unfinished wood appearing when the inset panel shrinks.

Additionally, if you are like most people in the construction industry today, labor is a shortage. I was a remodeling contractor when I started my cabinet shop, so I have an idea of where you are now. That was over 30 years ago. For me, I started my shop because I was not happy with my options when I worked with trim carpenters or cabinets shops and it gave us more work when the slow down came.

Do what you want to do, I only commented on this site to help others if I can.

Good Luck

Paul

3/21/17       #12: Wood Supply\Selection ...
D Brown

Vince, as far as hardness goes I would estimate that Soft Maple is close to as hard as say Cherry, much harder than Alder so I would not be so concerned about denting from softness, whether it is painted or stained it is an acceptable wood.

3/22/17       #13: Wood Supply\Selection ...
John Member

Most of the soft maple I use is plenty hard. I use both hard and soft maple, and choose based on which is cheaper where I normally buy wood, and which is white if I'm doing stain grade. In my mind, if soft maple is hard enough for paint grade, then it's hard enough for stain grade.

Except for the conversion varnish, I've used your finishing schedule and it worked really well. I only use WB topcoats so I spray a sealer coat of dewaxed shellac over the BAC Wiping Stain, then my topcoats, or toner first if needed.

John

3/23/17       #14: Wood Supply\Selection ...
Vince

Thanks to everyone who had input.

I ordered 20 BF hard maple from my plywood supplier.

Time to try some samples.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello