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HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in Canada

6/17/20       
Anon Member

Hi everyone, Ive been working on my 6" jointer for a while now and have felt the restrictions since i first got. Im thinking ill just skip an 8" and go for a 12" (want to build my own door at some point) So theres really three options for a jointer.... new, used or a combo planer machine. Personally I like my machines separate so it rules out doing a combo machine... When looking for used on kijiji, craiglist and other auction sites(lookin for 4 months), they all are asking for close to the same amount as new ones (plus depend where in canada, id needed to pay for shipping anyways as well).

Soooooo....... my options are buy a used machine (I have no electrical experience so if it was 3 phase I wouldnt know how to change it) or new, The brands that Canada offers are here: Powermatic- 12000-9000,Laguna- 9000 Grizzly(used) 7000, Scorpion 7000,King Canada- 4000, Steel City- 6500

Some are 3hp, most are 5 hp. all are single phase

Things ive heard: King Canada is trash. Lagunas customer service sucks(so ordering parts is a no go) , Grizzly is the best midbrand for americans, powermatic is a nicer Grizzly, and I have no knowledge and havent found a whole lot from Scorpion or Steel City.

If anyone can give me insight on these other two companies/ if anyone has experience with any of these 12" jointers, what was your experience like? Also if anyone has any other suggestions feel free to input. Also if anyone knows of any good auction or used machinery stores that would have 12" jointers in the gta thatd be helpful as well.

6/17/20       #2: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Just my opinion, I would not touch a single brand mentioned. Consumer grade stuff. I've got a 6" jointer in a yellow color I bought new when I started. It works, but it's never been a nice tool. For what it needs to do, it works.

I paid (I think) $1200 for SAC 12" a few years ago used. I'm not in love with it, but it's alright.

Northfield, Yates, Martin, SCM, Casadei, Porter, Oliver, more names I can't think of.... There is a lot of options out there.

3ph doesn't matter, a vfd is a simple solution if you don't have 3ph from the line.

6/17/20       #3: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Anon Member

hey karl, so ive looked at all these companys just now, and noticed two more options from your list. unfortunately the majority of those brands dont have any sellers in canada (unless used for 13k(oliver and yates)). the two added now are northfield with a 15k jointer (dont know if i can afford that :S) or SCM Minimax FS 30 for 5000. also that martin company looks really cool (wish they had a canadian supplier)

6/17/20       #4: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
rich c.

Is your business small enough to use hobbyist equipment successfully? None of those will runs for hours every day.

6/18/20       #5: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

I would avoid Minimax as well. Light duty.

6/18/20       #6: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Tom Gardiner

Taurus Craco in Brampton is a Martin dealer.
Digital phase converters are relatively inexpensive, efficient and reliable. You can buy one for a specific machine or for the whole shop. What you pay for the phase converter you will save in being able to buy quality 3 phase machinery.
Deals come along all the time on Kijiji. You may have to jump on a find though.

6/18/20       #7: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Anon Member

hello responders, thank you all for responding to my question. Now to respond to some of you.

So i understand with resale value, as well as power, 3 phase are the better option, but for the work I do and being able to only work weekends/ evenings during the week. I dont plan on doing mass production, and im a one man shop with other duties than jointing, so no i will not be running this machine all the time, I may run in quite a bit on a weekend, but its not going to be running while im at work. Also I looked up earlier on how to change a machines over from 3 to 1 and its not that it seems to be challenging, its more if someones gonna put a crazy amount of money on a machine, personally I dont want to spend more many on said machine and potentially botch it up with doing electronics I learned from Youtube. throw me a computer to build and ill be fine but messing around with a probably $15,000 machine + 1000 for a converter for the chance of it to work in my garage/workshop, sounds like a no go for me. Just kinda want to get a working machine that can joint all my rough lumber.

For the majority of brands suggested, There all extremely nice jointers, but i highly doubt i can even afford em if I have to ask for a quote......

Ill probably be looking around local used machinery stores (but have been for awhile) and continue the search online on Kijiji/Craigslist/Auction Sites

Based off this, apparently all the companies in my price range are crap to all of you............. So i guess my question to all of you is. Which jointer do you use? (if youre a one man shop, would love to hear your input, if your talking about the jointer in your mass production company than im probably not looking at that jointer)

My final question I guess is, If there all so crap, why do the majority of people who make videos online use them (and yes I understand you can say there hobbyists, but they clearly do woodworking for a living and have been using the same machines for years) .

6/18/20       #8: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Tom Gardiner

I started out with a a 6" Rockwell. It was weak and had tables misaligned but with a straight edge and brass shims I was able to do small jobs with it. Three jointers later I have a 1950s 20" machine I purchased for $600 because the bearings were shot. I love the 8 foot bed.
As a one man shop you can make a lesser machine work. You will learn it's quirks and be able to compensate. Multi person shops can't tolerate unpredictable machines.
I wouldn't bypass heavy jointer planer combination machines. The change over is relatively quick on a SCM or Felder. They come up for sale for $3-5k. Digital phase converters are pretty much plug and play and don't require messing with the machine.

6/18/20       #9: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
the google

i've been using a 12" extrema, pretty much daily for the past eleven years (with us going from one man to six over that time). it is the same grizzly, etc. import machine still being produced today. we've replaced the starter and spring in the guard assembly. we added custom extension tables to both infeed and outfeed, so the overall footprint is 16' long. it has a helical head and i picked it up at auction from a local company. i like the expensive stuff, too, but this machine is pretty simple in nature and works as it should. i'm actually upgrading to a 20" (from a friend's shop) in a week or so, but i'm less scared of import machines, having worked with this one for so long.

and everyone's experience is different. karl's comment about minimax is opposite mine. i've got an older slider and planer from minimax and both operate as they should. other than knives and blades, neither has any other replacement parts in it, and the younger of the two is a 2002 model year.

good luck.

6/18/20       #10: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Alan F. Member

You could always search here on woodweb

WOODWEB's Machinery Exchange

6/18/20       #11: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Brian Member

I wouldn’t rule out buying in the US. If you can find something for sale and they will put it on a pallet shipping is not that expensive. I buy doors from Walzcraft in Wisconsin. They get trucked to a terminal in Grand Rapids , Mi. A local Woodstock trucking company charged me $85 (cdn) from Grand Rapids to Woodstock, ont. customs brokerage fee was $41.50. Most of my machinery came out of US. Buy a Rotary phase converter and you will never look back. I run 2 20 hp units. There is a 40 hp unit on this site in Machinery exchange. 3 phase is the way to go

6/18/20       #12: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
TonyF

Anon:

I meet your criteria as a sole shop owner. I replaced a Powermatic 12" planer and a Grizzly 8" joiner with a new Hammer A30 12" combo planer/joiner. Hammer, the less expensive brand of Felder, has worked well for me, and I believe they ship to Canada (US Delaware location). It has taken everything that I have fed it, as have the other machines, for that matter. It converts easily between modes (30 seconds) and has indexed HSS knives that are reversed when dull, and then disposed of, perhaps 10 minutes to change over the knives. I have never had curly maple plane better than on this machine. 15 years and still have replaced nothing other than the knives.

I use a space on my residential property as a shop, so 3 phase was out of the question. This single phase machine has been trouble free for me, perhaps because I am the only person using it. The smaller scale machinery is adequate for a one man shop, unless you are doing millwork of a size that is scaled for a castle.

Conference tables, paneling, entertainment centers, furniture pieces, moldings, doors, windows and cabinetry have not been an issue with my "underpowered" machinery. I have a 3HP Unisaw (Rockwell, before they became Delta again) that I bought new, and in 35 years of daily use all I have replaced are the arbor bearings one time. It rips 8/4 oak without bogging down.

I think that the criteria for purchase should be comfort level with the machine, space requirements, affordability, ease of maintenance, and having it be a good fit for the type of work you do.

Everybody likes the bigger toys with more horsepower, but for cabinetry/furniture/small millwork, the single phase "cabinet shop" machinery has proven to be adequately powered and has served me well. For my work, I don't run machines all day long. There are enough people like me buying these machines where resale should not be an issue.

"Underpowered" machinery has yet to be an issue; since I am on in years I am usually the one who is underpowered.

Hope this helps.
TonyF

6/18/20       #13: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Adam

Let’s start with your current setup.
6” jointer. Unless it’s an old school 50 year old Powematic, it’s got foot long infeed & outfeed tables. More or less useless for straightening boards. 6” width is narrow.

I’m guessing that you haven’t used an 8” jointer. They are the most common because they cover 95% of all woodworking needs.

Unless you are making trim or moulding(which needs limited straightening and flattening) the most common largish stick of wood 4/4 x 8” x 10’.

It’s not good practice to use boards over 8”. Typical 8” jointers equivalent in length to a Delta or Powermatic will accurately straighten 10’ boards.

2hp is all you need for a jointer, unless you are hogging material off of a 12” wide board. Jointers are typically used to finish cut 1/16-1/8” a pass. No need for a big engine.

To the best of my knowledge the one thing that a 12” jointer would be good for is flattening 12” wide bottom door rails.

Unless you are making piles of doors tor every weekly 12” isn’t necessary.

I can explain in a few sentences how to use a 8” jointer to flatten a 12” board.

Save your money. Buy a bigger better shaper or planer. Stick with an 8”. You can always move up later.

6/19/20       #14: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Leo G Member

I've had a DJ-20 forever now. I buy all my stock either rough or skip planed. My joiner and planer are used in each and every project. I want freshly trued lumber so things are perfect for running on other machines.

For the most part 8" does the job. 12" would be a nice upgrade for some things. But I would rather have a wider planer or a widebelt sander than a 12" jointer.

You can easily glue up smaller boards (after facing on a jointer) and then run them through the planer and if you did things correctly they will remain flat and true.

My DJ-20 did not come aligned very well and it took me quite some time to finally get it working nice. I can do 16 footers and only have a 64th gap between 2 jointed boards. When I do 3-4 foot boards they butt up perfectly and I could glue them using masking tape.

6/19/20       #15: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Scott

I have an Scm jointer and I love it to death, however I had a DJ-20 as well for a long time and I really enjoyed using it.
I think Leo said something very important, he had to spend time to get the machine set up and finely tuned.
The list of machines you first mentioned are manufactured off shore and generally they are a harbour freight, or princess auto if your in Canada type quality. The components are cheaper, the castings are not as nicely done and the overall fit and finish is a little off. If you spend some time with these machines you can tune them up and they will usually last a long time, a big advantage is by the sounds of it you will be the only one using it, employees are hard on equipment.
It all comes down to $$$$, why spend big bucks for a machine that you don’t use that often, if I was in your position I would be patient, I would look for a good used machine, some manufactures like minimax are a little lighter built as Karl mentioned, but they also build a lot of their equipment with a single phase motor, that saves you from buying and setting up a phase converter.
I think there will be a lot of used equipment up for sale in the coming year or two .

6/19/20       #16: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Adam

Let me put it another way. At our old shop we had (1) 12” scmi. (2) old Powermatic 8”.

The only time I used the 12” was for bottom rails & over 10’ boards. I would choose to use the 8”. It’s more comfortable and not scary.

6/19/20       #17: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Warren E Member

agree with Karl on this. I bought new General stuff early 80s. 8" jointer fine for most of the jobs and would likely build the same still even on the larger jointer. Materials were selected for the job.

The old guy looked at the General and said mickey mouse. He offended me at the time but it was accurate. Only I didnt know till I bought his SCM Invincible 14". On his machine he said its no Mercedes. Geez can I do anything right :)

He learned when shops were just coming off belts and his teacher was often given machinery to use to try and he sometimes wrote reviews on them. He was around good machinery in Europe from very young then in companies he ran in Canada.

For me using the General jointer is like driving a K Car. Using that model of SCM is like driving a 91 560 SEC. I hardly ever turn on the General why when the other machine blows it away in every way.

Jacks statement of 1 Hp per 4 inches is good for jointers.

If I had to buy an 8" jointer for some reason id get used Poitras and at least not have to listen to a flapping metal base.

6/20/20       #18: HELP: Picking a 12" Jointer in ...
Thomas

Anon
You have received a lot of good advise and recommendations. I used and old grizzly for years while waiting for the right machine. Finally I found one on Craigslist of all places. I waited a while and good used equipment can be found. I purchased a used Crescent 24 inch jointer for $1500 in working condition. The only thing I had to do was purchase a phase converter. Well worth the money spent. Big...yes. My wife stated she would never use it. She was afraid of it. The old grizzly was too small and she had to use it. After using it once she sold the grizzly. It is huge but it has brought us a lot of work, just being able to joint boards wider than inches. Watch the internet...you will find a good old machine.


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