CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Post a Response
The staff at WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at any WOODWEB Forum. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk.
Your Name:
Your Website:
Email Address:
Subject: Re: spoil board

Message:

(read message guidelines).
Note: Do not use the below fields to advertise your business - only for links related to the discussion.
Thread Related Link URL:
Thread Related Link Title:
  To "point" to an image (picture) from another website, provide the URL (Web Address) of the file ( include ONE reference to http:// )
Thread Related Image URL:

Date of your Birth:

Upload a Thread Related File:
File Types: Image (gif-jpg-png-bmp), PDF, Sketchup, Video (mov avi wmv mpeg mpg mp4 ogg). (Image Upload Tips)

I have read the Site User Agreement and agree with the Terms

  <= Check to receive e-mail notification of responses

Message Thread:

spoil board

7/27/18       
DOUGLAS P CONTI Member

I have a 5 x10 router and at times when cutting parts such as small stretchers they have a tendency to move a little when they are on the edges of the board (even when I tab them) This is mostly when I use prefinished 3/4 plywood. My software seems to always put the stretchers on the outside edge of the sheet to compound the problem. Also when using onesided prefinsihed some times it is hard to keep one corner down. My question to you has anybody tried shifting the orgin to say 6,6 and get the edge of my material away from the edge of the spoil board? I mean we have a 5 x 10 table and basically only cut on the first 4x8 when cutting plywood. Just thought of it today when I was trying to hold down that pesky corner at the origin.

7/27/18       #2: spoil board ...
Bill Member

That may work, you could certainly try it. Are you blocking off the unused portion of the table also? What pump(s) are you using? What level of vacuum do you develop at the beginning of the sheet and what does it get to by the end?

7/28/18       #3: spoil board ...
james e mcgrew Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

What software are You using ? many will allow for cut pattern to cut smallest parts first (Max Vac) or move them more centered to the nest. We are cutting 6 x 9 or 12 drawer fronts and stretchers (probably smallest parts we cut) what size and type of vac and is plenum divided into segments. Like bill said covering unused area to stop vac loss, basically it is just another strategy wanting a sweet spot.

7/29/18       #4: spoil board ...
Mark

What is needed, like Yakov (sorry If I murdered the spelling of your name) said a few months ago is an algorithm. You need to, like I have been doing for many years, and this is the most tedious thing that I do in my life, is to order the start and stop points as elegantly as possible to begin and end at a point already connected to the remaining nest. To state simply, if you have 10 small stretchers surrounding a large base cabinet side, first set the start and stop points of the small parts to tend to the center then set the cut order to first cut the outer (or smaller) parts then the inner (or larger) parts so that the last part cut is one that will not move.
It is not so difficult really, a minute or so for a sheet of typical cabinet parts with a little practice, but you will loose very few parts, even with poor vacuum.
Prefinished ply is the most difficult to cut. Some brands, I happen to like Garnica, it seems to remain relatively flat, the corners suck down well mostly no matter what face is up. The 7 ply Columbia works well too. If you can orient the outer edges concave down it helps a lot.

7/30/18       #5: spoil board ...
katz

thanks Mark ,no you not "murdered" my name
i attach one sample ,you can see the order of cutting parts and the lead in point
this sample cut in one time (no onion skin neded) with 6mm diameter tool
about 15 m/min
with only one vacuum pump 250 m3/h
nothing moove

you can see that only last part we use onion skin (its according remind mm3 ,part of the algorithm)


View higher quality, full size image (2206 X 1076)


View higher quality, full size image (2206 X 1076)

7/30/18       #6: spoil board ...
DOUGLAS P CONTI Member

Yes that is very simple, very simple indeed. Why I did not see that I can not explain. I guess I could not see the algorithm for the trees. I do not know how the software I use places pieces on the sheet, or how it places start and stop points. It does do onion skin and tabs but how it determines where they are is also way above my pay level. I know that it will cut plywood stretchers with the grain since plywood does have a grain, and I can switch off the grain for solid color melamine, where it will optimize all parts for optimum yield, however since my 5 mm drills are set up in the x axis and my different size drills are in the y axis I have to leave the grain on so it won't chicken peck my adjustable shelf holes. I can guess that what you are saying will be in the g-code which I know a little bit about but I can not read it like a second language. I do appreciate your time and effort in trying to help me, maybe you could explain it in a way that I could understand, your maybe there is just no help for me, its that thing about old dogs and tricks

7/30/18       #7: spoil board ...
Larry

You are using a very small bit and going really slow so the forces can't be very high. That leaves the material which is slick, &/or warped and the vacuum level at the part. if you haven't paint or band the edge of the spoil board to reduce leakage. Cover any unused areas with laminate or something that will suck down flat. Resurface the spoil board often. Check/clean the filter on your vacuum system. What does the vacuum gage read while cutting?

7/30/18       #8: spoil board ...
katz

15 meter / min its not slow
the vacuum can show from 0.5- 0.75

7/31/18       #9: spoil board ...
Mike McClaran Member

Larry is correct. Sealed edges are needed.
Your edge banding will flake off though, when fly cutting. The easy solution is to run it through the edge bander with no tape. Remember to back off the pressure wheels so you don't make a mess.
I wrote this a few years back.
https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/custom-woodworking/cabinet-making-case-studies/
4-Steps-to-Surfacing-MDF-Spoilboards-195405851.html

8/23/18       #10: spoil board ...
rich fussell

To Katz. I saw the picture of the nested parts. I have used many programs to nest, my fav being Alphacam. None are perfect. As in the picture you have the parts you want to cut first all the way at the end. I am guessing your X0Y0 is lower left.. I would have modded that layout by basically rotating it 180 Deg, doing the thin parts first, then moving into the large parts that do not succumb to vacuum losing strength as pieces are separated from the panel. You can order toolpaths, right? That's key to working around less than ideal vacuum. Strategize. Choose start points correctly. Maybe do the narrow boards in 2 passes and the large panels you can blow through with a 3/8 comp @ 850" a min. Less waste.

8/24/18       #11: spoil board ...
yaakov katz

@Rich about axis yes you corect we usualy use the europain style ,that mean long axis is X
about parts order you can see the number ,one thing very important its the lead in point ,always in the side close to center ,and near corner ,so most cuting ,part stick well to main board
in mine nesting all that calculate by software ,you dont need change by manual
can cut one time ,with 6 mm diameter tool speed about 15 m/min

 

Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Onsrud Cutter Vortex Tool Company T-Tool USA