CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Decision about CNC

11/5/15       
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

Hello,

We're a 6 person shop. 2 in finish, 3 in production, 1 in design. KCD software. Currently use an old SCM slide saw, Double Line bore and Castle Pocket Machine to make and assemble boxes, parts, we are a custom cabinet shop by the way. I have an opportunity to buy a used Holz Her panel saw (2006) or a Weeke (2008) CNC Router. Also looked at new Slide Saw. I have goals to grow and am taking steps to pursue more business. The shop selling the equipment is retiring which will lead to more business for us, in addition to us getting our name out (right now we're unknown but have solid work booked ahead). Do I go to the CNC, the Weeke or some other CNC? Or go with the Panel saw for now?
Here's the question. What's the best test for transitioning to a CNC machine?

11/5/15       #2: Decision about CNC ...
Mike

If the Weeke is a flat table router, that will be your most productive and versatile machine. For a small custom shop, I would pass on the panel saw in favor of a flat table router. If the Weeke is a pod and rail point to point, I'd pass and wait for a good deal on a nesting machine. I am also in a small custom shop cutting lots of panels and solids on our router.

11/5/15       #3: Decision about CNC ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

Thanks Mike,

Yes this is a flat table machine and it has pods that can be attached to hold small parts also. My estimation is that it's a good move to get it. But I'm listening to advice from guys who've already made the transition.

11/5/15       #4: Decision about CNC ...
JM

If you have the workload to justify the payments, it is very hard for a small shop to improve on a nesting router with vacuum table with regards to efficiency.

You mention the Weeke having a flat table with option to add pods. Does this mean the entire flat table is a vacuum table utilizing a spoilboard? Or do you mean that the table is physically flat and has pods?

Reason for clarification, is you really want a nested based machine. This will be a machine that is at least 4'x8' utilizing a vacuum through an MDF spoilboard. This will allow an entire sheet to be sucked down to the table for machining. You will want a spindle with and ATC so you are not manually changing tools for the various drilling and cutting operations.

You will have 1 operator cutting parts, edgebanding parts, and doing other various things all at the same time. Our 1 employee cuts and bands one kitchen while he is assembling the kitchen cut previously. The machine requires very little labour to keep it running......maybe 2 minutes per sheet (very generous) to clear the table of cut parts, blow off the dust, load another sheet and hit the start button.

11/5/15       #5: Decision about CNC ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

Yes this has a flat table and you put a full sheet on it. 4x8. I have KCD software but of course would purchase or rent the CNC software.

11/6/15       #6: Decision about CNC ...
james mcgrew Member

CNC is the next step. You will not regret the change,

11/6/15       #7: Decision about CNC ...
MIKE

Website: http://lustigcabinets.com

You need a good support for the cnc, it will change the way the shop works. You need tech support to make sure it keeps running. Good luck!

11/8/15       #8: Decision about CNC ...
Derrek

Hands down cnc. Most efficient way to turn panels into dollars. You need yout software dialed in and properly set up. Be open to changing the way you do things not trying to get software and machine to do it how you do it.
I switched to full nested base 4 years ago and immediately increased profitability and have only gotten better since.

11/8/15       #9: Decision about CNC ...
Larry

I 10th the CNC nested router solution. Far more productive and it will increase your speed of assembly also. Load full sheets, 6 or 8 minutes later unload all the parts for about 1 1/4 cabinets fully detailed. Get good software, not cheap. Machine must have a tool changer and boring block.

11/9/15       #10: Decision about CNC ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://www.cedarrivercabinetry.com

I'm convinced on the CNC machine so I'm going forward with it. So now the question is software. I currently use KCD for the needs I have pre CNC. Is KCD CNC software a good choice?

11/9/15       #11: Decision about CNC ...
ALEX

I work as a programmer on many cnc brands including homag and weeke, biesse, fanuc etc.... If you want complete screen to machine integration then get the Cut Center from Thermwood.

11/11/15       #12: Decision about CNC ...
Jay  Member

Website: http://www.hwccustomcabinetry.com

Nick,

Are you getting good cutlist from KCD doing what you are doing now? If so you will be best served keeping KCD, at least for now. You will spend the bulk of your time dialing in KCD to give you just the parts you want, just like you did to get a good cutlist now, but with more detail. I have a cnc shop about your size it sounds, with KCD. KCD is the fastest drawing platform period. It's weak spot, as you likely know is that manually placing internal cabinet components is limited. If that is tremendously important to you you may want to look elsewhere for your software. Keep in mind all software packages have strengths and weaknesses and you have to evaluate that in light of your specific product. I ran CV some years ago, and switched to KCD, never looked back. I know others who have gone the other direction.

Think through and work out your systems (they will need to change some from what you currently do to be optimized for how the router works).
Make sure you have very good tech support or know your way around a cnc very well, especially in the beginning here with a 10 year old machine. Pay for it, it is worth it! Ideally they will be good both with the machine & the software (KCD) plus a post processor if you don't use 'one button machining'.

  • Post a Response to this thread
  • notify me of responses to this topic
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Today's Sponsors