We are cutting a lot of one piece doors on the cnc lately. Tooling sharp, look good after cut.
Finish schedule is sand 220g, sand 320 grit. Prime Clawlock, sand 320g, reprime Clawlock sand 320g. Color coat Resistant, scuff scotch brite, final color resistant.
No matter how well sanded and how well coated, there are micro pitting in the cut portion of the inset panel. The edges do not have this. You can only see them in certain light. Panel is smooth to touch just not up to snuff.
Interested in hearing others finish schedule and if anyone else has this problem.
He mentioned onsrud insert cutters, so carbide there. I use an Amana mini flycutter to plow out, and the carbide inserts dull pretty fast. I replace them about every other job. When dull, they tear and make extra work so we end up skim-coating the center panel with thinned out filler, which seems to mitigate the pinhole problem later.
Appreciate your responses. "Grain fill" not really an option, kinda defeats the purpose of budget minded of one piece mdf door from labor stand point. Sounds like the consensus is brand of "door grade" mdf coupled with carbide cutters and making sure they are sharp. Will be trying other manufactures of mdf. Thanks
Well it also sounds like your mindset isn't really grasping the concept of budget doors either.
The little imperfections you speak of are because of the lower price point of the doors also. I know you want a beautiful product, but lower price does come with a limit to the quality of the product too.
Leo, I'd agree my mindset has a hard time grasping dumbing down my product. For 40 years we have built bespoke boutique cabinets. Have turned down numerous opportunities for less expensive cabinets and have had a hard time getting there.
The minor pitting just bothers me. Hard to see but I see it.
You're not telling me anything. I'm anal. And I guess you are too. Even when I'm doing price point woodworking I can't help myself to keep my high standard up. Costs me money so I try not to do that kind of work.
As Leo mentioned the Plum creek double refined mdf is necessary. There may be other brands of double refined.
How are you applying the sealer coat of primer? It should be done so that you can't see any of the mdf when you sand it.
We only use mdf for paint grade flat & raised panels . We use BIN as the mdf sealer. Its applied with a brush. 2 quick coats only on the cut part of the panel.
The BIN drys in 10-15 minutes. As you are going around the mdf it soaks it up. We set up all the panels and quickly brush around all the them. By the time we get back to the first one the BIN has started to set and the next brushed coat completely fills in the grain.
Our jobs are at the top end of the New England market. Porosity is not acceptable.
Your sanding & coating schedule is identical to ours. I don't think you are get enough primer on the sealer coat. Clawlock can be used in this way. It doesn't dry as quick as BIN. Obviously you could wait a few more minutes between the sealer coats.
I think you'll be surprised by the Plum Creek. I know I was. 1st coat of primer doesn't soak in. And the 1st coat on the uncut areas will be as much as you need. It really is great for panels, even flat ones.
Its come along way since the mid nineties when the industry standard was to use regular mdf and grain fill with sheet rock compound, bondo, gluesize, or you grandmother's secret recipe for mashed potatoes.
Double refined and the proper primer/sealer is the go.
Interesting forum, I gave up on cutting these doors a long time ago, because it seemed like so much labour to make them look good. It sounds like you guys are getting them figured out down to a science. I think I will get some of that mdf and give them another whirl. What diameter bit seems to be the best for cleaning out the majority of the panel?
Update: Purchased new bit set from Vortec, got Plum Creek high density MDF. Doubled up on Clawlock primer, other than that same finish schedule.
All of the above allows us to produce and finish our one piece doors to a very tolerable level quality wise. Too bad we have to buy the Plum Creek in whole units, supplier doesn't stock but can get at ok price per unit.
I thank everyone for their input in helping us solve this problem. Y'alls input and knowledge is valuable to us.
When it comes to sanding after that first coat of Clawlock, is anyone using any special profile sanding tools?
I find that I have to use hand sponge sanders and press them incredibly hard into the profile to sand it smooth enough. That first coat of Clawlock on the machined areas of mdf turns rock hard and I'm dying for an easier alternative than my fatigued arm, haha.
I thought about looking into the Festool Profile sander with the custom profile kit to custom make my own sanding profiles.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.