I'm a finish carpenter with a decent amount of wood finishing experience, only a modest amount of floor finishing experience.
I laid a new red oak floor down next to (what I know now is) an original white oak floor in my house. I did a lot of samples and settled on a golden oak Dura Seal stain for a close enough match. I finished with Bona HD Traffic, matte (water based 2 part epoxy).
After a year I am really regretting the color. By itself it's perfectly nice. Where it meets the white oak you can really notice a difference. Very pronounced orange and red tones in the red oak.
Stripping down to bare wood again is not an option for reasons I will not go into.
I would like to tint the existing tone with either a violet/gray or a green/gray to neutralize the oranges. At this point I know I will never match the original white oak. I just want something that's not so offensive. If it's can end up a gray/brown that would be ideal.
Here is my idea and I would like some input on whether or not you think it will work:
1. Screen the Bona matte topcoat
2. Put one or two very thin coats of water-based tint, once I work out what color balance will do the trick. For this I figured I would use minwax water-based wood stain, though I guess it could even be paint for this purpose.
3. Top coat that tint with another two coats of Bona Traffic.
My thinking is that I just need the tint to stick to the abraded original topcoat, and for the new topcoat to stick to that.
I know that water based stain on a large area will be difficult to avoid lap marks, but I'm hoping if I keep it very dilute I can make it pretty even over the course of a few coats.
i know that it's possible to tint the topcoat itself, though I don't know if it's doable with the 2-part stuff I'm using. Also I feel like I might have more control over the tinting if that's done separately from the topcoat.
Is there a potential problem in having a solid wood floor with what would ultimately be 4-5 coats of an epoxy coating? Is this too thick? Would this crack as boards move?
Would I have serious adhesion problems?
Could the final result end up murky?
I'm curious to hear your thoughts or suggestions. I know this is not the proper way to go about finishing a floor. I would like to know if I can salvage what I have. What I'm concerned about most is durability because worn areas will be super noticeable with two different color layers.
I looked at the product data sheet, no mention of a film thickness limitation.
Just in case you haven't thought of it; make some samples that match your floor and play with those to get the color you want instead of the floor.
I agree with Leo just get some UTC's from your local paint store to make your shader...green, black & white is where I would start. Also get some plastic quart mixing cups and mix the colors in some 50/50 thinned finish or better yet get some single component material to get your color right before moving on to the 2 component material.
Sounds like a disaster to me. I've used green toned dye to kill red, applied directly to the raw wood. Orange dye to walnut to make it look aged. But applying on top of clear is just going to look like paint. It's not going to kill any color in the wood, since it won't be on the wood. Don't do it. Just wait until you are ready to refinish all the floors. Surprised you didn't notice the porosity in the grain of the red oak compared to the white before you laid it down.
I've added green dye to kill red after the first coat has been applied. That's the way it's done. You need to use dye, not pigments. It needs to be diluted and thin so you don't over do it. And you will need to put a full coat of clear on top to protect it.
Do not use "UTC's" unless you want to deal with a slow drying, soft coating film for 3-4 months. Get yourself some dyes (Lockwood for waterbased) and mix up a bit and put it on a clean piece of glass, then lay it across the floor so you can see the color change before you make any serious changes.
We have not used them in Bona but we have used Transtint dye a ton to tone after a first coat of finish. The main issue you will want to pay attention to with dye's is whether they are color fast especially in the sun. They are powerful and transparent so I'd think they may be a better option to retain clarity in the finish. Just our experience.
Yes you can do this. Just do a lot of tests first. Make samples with scrap wood and use the exact finish/process that's on your floor on the samples. I would suggest tinting a universal sealer (aka dewaxed shellac) and doing light coats of it until you dial in the exact tone that you want. Universal sealer seems much better with lap lines than tinting waterbased finish. Another possible option is a product called Bona Nordic Seal. It's a sealer with a bit of white in it. It works great for killing red and golden tones. Hope this helps.
You aren't trying to make white and red oak look the same. You are trying to match the colors to each other so it doesn't look so obvious. If the colors were the same it won't stick out, and you won't even notice the two different woods.
you sure can, sort of, I would just nudge it with a hue change. Using a super thin stain in between coats like this...
I would Clean the subject thoroughly with a scothchbrite green scrubbie and blue concentrate Dawn. Rinse well and allow to dry over night before sanding with purple 3M 180 or 220 if you can find some. Do not use garnet or open coat paper it will just pack out your paper resulting in an uneven sand. Vacuum dust.
Use Saman water based stain with XIM reducer and water mix. There is your water based stain, the Saman stain is very powerful. I use it as a tinting agent, it has several colors and primaries also.
Apply in any uniform fashion. Just make sure you make the stain strong enough so when you wipe it off it leaves a hue change.
Take a Yellow green color similar to raw sienna and make it very thin. This will cancel out that red so try just a little. Green and red are not friends. Try to apply on the clean sanded surface.
You can clean it off with soapy water if is wrong.
DO NOT!! Allow any puddling or even try to use as a glaze. If it is left on too thick your finish coat's adhesion abilities will be compromised.
Let stand for desired effect. Wipe off completely.
Let dry for a solid 24 hours of you are going to apply finish with a pad or brush.
You will see fogging more so if you do not allow the stain to dry. You can even sand it before finish with a clean brown paper grocery bag, remove dust and tada!!!
I finish homes in Aspen Colorado. Only High end, I have worked here for 21 years. I do not use any solvent based coatings on interior finishes
Sometimes the UBER rich people will demand oils for their ability to actually pronounce the character of woods.
I charge them triple, if they want it I will take my time and be safe and breathe easy.
Leo G., the general public won't know the difference, but a woodworker should be able to spot the difference between white and red oak from the front door. If they filled the pores of the red oak it will be more difficult, but that's a remote possibility these days!
Applying stain to anything other than bare wood sounds like a disaster to me. The "normal" way to do this is to tint your topcoats with an appropriate colorant and tone the wood until you reach your desired color. I'd reach out to Bona or your finish supplier before doing anything.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.