Hello group! I have a problem and I'm hoping for the right answer since I trusted my dealer and stained the entire project.
I'm using a Sherwin Williams BAC black wiping stain on white oak. I applied one coat but it was so light after wiping it off I then applied a second and third coat without wiping it off in a good continuous wiping method so that it looks perfect.
This stain is dry but if I run my finger over the product my finger will pick up a very, very tiny amount of stain and it does feel a tiny bit damp. I called Sherwin Williams tech support and he told me that the pigments did not penetrate the wood and if I proceed to put on the T65F520 sanding sealer and finish with the T65F550 that he's worried that the finish will pull off in sheets at an undetermined later date because the un-penetrated stain will act as a barrier. So my question is, is this true? Should I continue waiting until it's completely dry and then finish? The stain on the white oak looks beautiful and it does look like it penetrated. I should also say that since I have been staining the white oak it has been raining for close to four days now and the dampness in the atmosphere maybe holding the drying back. Anyway, what does this group think?

Thank you!

Let it dry a couple more days and you should be fine as long as you weren't just lightly wiping it down (i.e. trying to paint the color on).

After this, switch to MLC wiping stains. You can achieve dark rich color without the headaches of BAC and MLC dries so nicely. I would never go back after I made the switch.

I think that there's very little binder in BAC stain. In other words it's mostly thinner, a little pigment and color there not much holding the pigment & color together after the thinner evaporates. That's why it's coming off onto your hand not that it isn't dry. I can see there being top coat adhesion issues if lay on multiple coats without wiping.
I use quite bit BAC stain and l've found if l need to get a deep color. I dye the parts close to my stain color first before staining.

First I'd let that project sit and experiment on scrap like you should have done in the first place. Why guys experiment with a new product in their shop, directly on completed work, I'll never understand. If it was me, I'd wash off that surface, let it dry throughly. Then apply dye to get the color intensity you want, let that dry. Then clear coat. Even if you don't get an adhesion issue with what you have, that first clear coat is going to pick up that pigment and you'll have a good chance of having a muddy finish. So recreate your current work on scrap, then do the experiments from there!

Thanks group for your responses. I like josh's response and I think it will work. I did a test piece (I know) and finished with the sanding sealer and finish and did not get a muddy pick up so I'm tempted to move forward. Rich has the idea that I was thinking and that is to wash it all off and get some General Finishes die and start over since there is a lot of time with this pandemic going on. Every once in a while no matter how old I get I still make stupid mistakes and I thank the good Lord above that I have a great group like this one to lean on!!! I'll let you know my decision. Thanks again!

your always better on darker finishes to start out with a dye and then follow with a stain. You don't get the muddy appearance and adhesion issues and you can still see the grain coming through. If it still isn't dark enough you can mix up a shader with the dye and darken even further.

I completely agree with Josh.
While S.W. & M.L.C. are owned by the same
company, their finishes are different.
I switched 10 years ago. Best thing I ever did. When you deal with M.L.C., your'e
dealing with professionals.

Not sure what all of you are finding but the price of MLC here has gotten so far out of control that we switched to Sherwin Williams. The price is literally less than half of what I was paying for MLC. Maybe its the local supplier but that is just too much difference. I have used MLC for 20 years + and they just got too expensive for their products!

We have the same issue as Dan with MLC though they were our best option in the area when available for color match and product support. That said, we are in a pretty low volume area and MLC simply will not support a low volume area or allow you to get access to samples or less than case quantities. Its a major nightmare for a small/varied shop especially if you spray water clears. This has all come to an end in our area as for the second time in perhaps 5 years MLC has lost its distribution in the area (local distributor dropped the line due to volume) so now, if MLC will even allow it, your left paying freight to ship product in and given the stuff is already priced like gold bars thats a major deal breaker.

We are in the process now of setting back up with Sherwin Industrial (which still has to be shipped in but the base material cost is far more reasonable). We ran BAC for a long while and I would agree that MLC's spray and wipe is really nice but it is what it is.

My experience is the same as others with BAC, no binder, it will never lock up on the work (which is kinda nice when you find an errant rag mark or other issue with the stain in the booth you can correct). MLC is not so forgiving in that area for us in that going after a stain issue usually leaves a light blotch. But the BAC, for me at least, is a lot harder to work with. I dont really know how you could do much a build up with multiple coats of BAC as in my experience your end result gets lighter and lighter because you just pulling off the unbound pigment with each successive application unless your spraying it on and then your back to the thick/adhesion issues.

MarkB, what are you saying? Should I wipe the BAC stain off or do you think the sanding sealer and finish will hold on?

Dan Cook, You've lost bids because the finish is too expensive? I've always found that no matter what finish I use, it's a tiny fraction of the cost of the job.

Was pretty much saying that in my experience with BAC (if your wiping/ragging/brushing) it on, I dont really know how you can build up multiple coats because for us the next coat re-wets the last and you wind up pulling more stain off than you are putting on and it seems to devolve from there. If you have it on super thick, or were spraying, I would think there would be a good risk that the stain will be a barrier and you may have adhesion issues but we spray water so the comments to let it dry thoroughly and go on may be sound.

Other than spraying I've had pretty much zero success with either BAC or MLC spray and wipe. I wouldnt say I would never see some pigment on my finger if I wiped after applying but if your seeing what you feel is a decent amount of pigment on your finger after a day of dry time I'd be concerned. I spray clear on MLC and BAC regularly in 30-40 minutes and have never had a problem though many here state days of dry time. The reason I use them is because of the super fast dry time.

** Correcton ** Other than spraying to build up multiple coats, Ive had zero success building up BAC or MLC. Both are great, I find MLC easier, but its a one and done deal. We rarely even let it sit for a while before ragging off because you start pushing it around and it seems more work than getting it right from the start.

I decided tomorrow I'm going to start wiping everything off with acetone and let it sit
and let it evaporate for a few days and then apply a new stain. I won't be able to get all of the BAC stain out and they'll be a small amount of color left behind. Today I purchased General Finishes black water-based stain. So my question, do you think I will have some kind of chemical reaction with the old BAC stain left in the white oak along with wiping it down with acetone and finishing with General finishes water-based stain?

Thank you!

No

I stripped the project of the BAC stain with lacquer thinner the other day and allowed to evaporate. Today I applied two coats of General Finishes black water-based stain.
The project looks great and the stain is going to stay for good and is solid as a rock.
I'll inspect the project to see if there's any blonde White Oak flashing through and if so i'll apply a very thin light coat of the General Finishes black stain. I feel very relieved that I stripped the BAC stain off and starting fresh. Tuesday i'll start finishing with clear coats.

That was the right choice Mike. I didn't wipe BAC wiping stain well enough on white oak in an attempt to get a really deep color. I had the same issue with it pulling off on my finger even though it dried in less than 30 minutes. I sealed and topcoated it and all was and is fine except it chips pretty easily so there's no real bond between the finish and wood. Thankfully, it was a personal project so no harm done.

I still like and use BAC wiping stain because it's local and I can get them to custom mix it while I wait and adjust it until I'm satisfied. I've spent nearly an hour there a couple of times and they didn't complain about the time for a $25 sale. But for really dark colors I dye it first now, as others suggested, and then follow up with BAC.

John

I do not like to use this kind of Wiping Stain direct on the wood because of it. If you want a dark color, no way, you will never get it. So I do prefer the old NGR stain in the spray gun, applying until near the final color, and before the final top coat again another coat of NGR just to match all the pieces. If I want more contrast I make the NGR slower and apply more wet.

Help!
I used the BAC wiping stain on the bottom step of our stairs, (carpeted stairs & wood bottom step)…horrible idea, I know.
After it had dried for only 8 hrs, my daughter stepped on it.
I tried to fix it…get the foot smear off, and the stain looks way worse now.
After reading reviews, I see that this stuff can be a nightmare.
How soon can I start over? Do I sand it? I was going to get some MLC stain that has been mentioned.
Any thoughts/advice are greatly appreciated!!!