Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

SPRAYING ILVA AND GRACO GX 19

10/21/17       
Nick Estvold

Hi guys,

I just purchased a new Graco GX 19 and did my first kitchen with it. It seems to be a very good system with good atomization and low overspray, but I am still disappointed as it didn't yet prove to be the answer to my many problems spraying ILVA WB pigmented lac. on vertical surfaces. It either orange peels or it runs.

One thing I should mention is that I switched from the 3M pps/ Accuspray setup I was previously using for all of my finishing which was all done in my shop, which wasn't quite adequate for higher volume finishes. That I could dial in for a good vertical finish, but it was never as repeatable as it seemed it should be, but I am totally new to airless sprayers.

I am using a RAC X FF210 Graco tip, sealing with Zinser All Prime Shellac, and top coating with the ILVA WB.

Any advice or thoughts from anyone who has some good experience spraying ILVA WB with an airless sprayer, especially the Graco GX 19 would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

10/22/17       #2: SPRAYING ILVA AND GRACO GX 19 ...
ronb

Website: http://www.ronbryze.com

Hi Nick,
European pigmented wb is a bit different than most coatings. Normally they are designed to be sprayed using a very large tip - as an example for a gravity spray gun a pigmented wb requires a 2.5 tip versus 1.8 tip for other types of European coatings. The reason is that these coatings are of a very high viscosity, but wb technology limits the amount these products can be reduced - normally 5%. Greater than this and you start to work outside the chemistry and can create other problems. Now you are faced with the challenge of atomizing a high viscosity liquid in such a manner that it can be properly applied to a vertical surface and dry with perfect results. The key here is to understand the atomization process.

Airless sprayers require a very high fluid pressure in order to completely atomize a liquid. This usually results in a large volume of coating being applied to the surface and orange peel and runs become a problem. You can try turning down the pressure, but at a certain point there will be a reduction in atomization. the next solution would be a smaller size tip. Unfortunately because of the basic mechanics of an airless system it will require precise tuning and adjusting as temperatures/viscosities change. Difficult yes, but can be done.

When you get to a point of considering a new or upgrade purchase I would suggest an air assisted airless system. They require much lower fluid pressure and are much easier to control. For pigmented water base I would recommend at least a 15:1 pump ratio.

Good luck and I hope this is of some help.

ronb

10/23/17       #4: SPRAYING ILVA AND GRACO GX 19 ...
Robert Member

ILVA...great prod and as ronb saying.....in Europe they do it a bit different !
Not only by the obvious....they use different resins & base prod....but mostly, the application thought & methods used are different.
Bear in mind, they mostly spray horizontally, not as much vertically as we do ( if it can be avoided !)
Even if it's a very viscous prod, in you case ( and many whom uses IVM or other euro prods) , in my modest opinion, theey (ILVA or other IVM / euro prod)....thinning is not your solution !
Even a 5% dilution for vertical....it will ot help, if anything, runs more !

You'll have to get back to a max of 2-3mill coats on vertical and make a cross re coat by waiting a little while longer ( say enough so you can see "not touch" visually when it stat to dry, then apply your x-coat.

That's how I do it with my AAA and.....butty !
Hope this help !

11/21/17       #5: SPRAYING ILVA AND GRACO GX 19 ...
Nick Estvold

Thanks for the info guys! I had no email notification on the post so thought it just went unnoticed until I logged into wooden again. Some helpful thoughts and insight here. Anyway, the reason I'm logging in now is to see if anyone else has ever had the same problems with ilva or wb in general regarding rough final coat. What I'm getting is almost like a sandy texture that pops up all over as the coat dries. And also some possibly unrelated minor fish eye or cratering. I'm curious if the wood heat drying the room out under 20 percent humidity may be causing some of my problems. Thanks again!


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)